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Post by Dirty Afanasenkov on Jul 8, 2005 11:15:26 GMT -5
Bryan Berard? He only won rookie of the year and is a top pair defenceman. And I wouldn't rank Murphy that low, he had some productive years; 7 20 goal seasons, 2 30 goal seasons. I agree about Phillips. Berard is no top pair defenseman Before he sustained his eye injury he was.
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MikeC
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Post by MikeC on Jul 8, 2005 12:13:17 GMT -5
Berard is no top pair defenseman Before he sustained his eye injury he was. Even after. He was far and away Chicago's best defenceman, and was 8th in the NHL in defenceman scoring despite missing 24 games. Since the injury, he's had to learn to become a better defenceman
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Post by PotatoesRGoodYum on Jul 8, 2005 12:33:55 GMT -5
He was supposed to be a great offensive dman... he really hasn't shown that in the NHL.. he's average
He was very good in Chicago.. but prior to that he was so bad in Boston they actually dressed him as a 4th line forward for awhile
He's not top pair dman on 90% of the NHL teams.. before his eye injury or after it
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Post by Cristobal Huet on Jul 8, 2005 12:38:58 GMT -5
He was supposed to be a great offensive dman... he really hasn't shown that in the NHL.. he's average He was very good in Chicago.. but prior to that he was so bad in Boston they actually dressed him as a 4th line forward for awhile He's not top pair dman on 90% of the NHL teams.. before his eye injury or after it The NHL of today(or 03-04), was not very receptive to offensive d-men. It's the age of the defensive d-man.
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Post by catnut on Jul 8, 2005 13:02:24 GMT -5
In the late 80's the Red Wings had signed a player they drafted for oodles of cash. He wasn't 1st overall but he was an early pick. He played one or two games with Detroit before being sent down to the AHL, never to be seen again in the NHL. I can't remember the name though.
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MikeC
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Post by MikeC on Jul 8, 2005 13:10:29 GMT -5
He was supposed to be a great offensive dman... he really hasn't shown that in the NHL.. he's average He was very good in Chicago.. but prior to that he was so bad in Boston they actually dressed him as a 4th line forward for awhile He's not top pair dman on 90% of the NHL teams.. before his eye injury or after it No, Boston didn't. He was their leading scoring defenceman. If he was so bad, he wouldn't have played in 80 games and received an arbitration award so high that Boston walked away from it. Are you seriously saying Berard is not among the top 55 defenceman in the NHL?
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Post by PotatoesRGoodYum on Jul 8, 2005 13:54:28 GMT -5
I watched Boston games the year he was there.. he got most of his points on the PP and yes during the stretch run he was removed from the blueline (except on PP's) and played as a 4th line forward
When Berard was drafted he was to become this super offensive dman.. he is mediocre at best... Brian Rafalski is better and Rafalski came in with no hype to live up to at all
and yeah I am saying Berard is not among the top 50 defensemen in the NHL
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MikeC
Full Member
Posts: 454
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Post by MikeC on Jul 8, 2005 14:25:17 GMT -5
When Berard was drafted he was to become this super offensive dman.. he is mediocre at best... Brian Rafalski is better and Rafalski came in with no hype to live up to at all and yeah I am saying Berard is not among the top 50 defensemen in the NHL He wone the Calder trophy. Had 48 points as a rookie defenceman. He had the 2nd highest PPG ratio among defencmen in 03-04, behind only Gonchar (.82 to .81.) What is mediocre about that? What does hype have to do with it? Just because a player doesn't live up to the hype doesn't mean they're a bad player. If he hadn't missed 1.5 seasons with his eye injury, he would be the highest scoring defenceman from his draft. As it is, he's 2nd only to Redden by 20 points, and Redden has played over 100 more games than Berard.
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Post by Sec21critic on Jul 8, 2005 21:02:44 GMT -5
In the late 80's the Red Wings had signed a player they drafted for oodles of cash. He wasn't 1st overall but he was an early pick. He played one or two games with Detroit before being sent down to the AHL, never to be seen again in the NHL. I can't remember the name though. I remember the Wings having a guy named Kory Kocur in their system.... he was a first rounder in the late 80's... but I think he actually played a couple of full seasons in the AHL.... never made the NHL though. And in response to Woody..... Lawton is worse than Murphy, Stephan and Wickenheiser. Worse than Murphy because Murphy actually had a decent playoff with the '90 Oilers. Worse than Stephan (right now) because Stephen is still active and has time to shake the "bust" title that he currently posesses. Worse than Wickenheiser for two reasons. Firstly, had Wickenheiser been drafted by ANY other team to begin with, I strongly believe his career would've been dramatically altered. After being quite a force in junior, he was subjected to spending far too much time in the press box in Montreal...... THEN being put under the microscope by Habs fans and top brass alike because of it (ESPECIALLY once the comparisons to Denis Savard began to crop up). It got to the point where Doug's PARENTS ended up meeting with Irving Grundman to plead for a trade (he was shipped off to the Blues soon after). Such is a problem when you are a highly touted prospect trying to find a spot in the lineup against a team of a) seasoned veterans (who are also impact players... Lafleur, Gainey, Larouche, etc.) and b) more polished rookies (Acton, Carbonneau, etc.). Had almost any other team drafted him, Wickenheiser's career could very well have been the complete opposite of what it became (the next pick that year was Winnipeg's.. NO WAY he would've been in the stands as a Jet). BTW, I KNEW someone would bring up Wickenheiser as soon as I posted my original comment on Lawton earlier today. Also, Wickenheiser at least had ONE memorable moment..... does anyone else remember the "Monday Night Miracle"? Lawton is worse than Daigle because Daigle actually became a solid role player.. one of the better ones in the NHL, actually. Lawton wasn't even noticable in THAT role. Lawton is worse than Berard based on raw skill alone. Bottom line... Lawton was just bad.... at least as a #1 pick
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Dave
Junior Member
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Post by Dave on Jul 9, 2005 8:49:50 GMT -5
In the late 80's the Red Wings had signed a player they drafted for oodles of cash. He wasn't 1st overall but he was an early pick. He played one or two games with Detroit before being sent down to the AHL, never to be seen again in the NHL. I can't remember the name though. I remember them signing Ray Staszak for a bucket of cash around the same time Joe Murphy was drafted. He ended playing 4 games. Don't think he was ever drafted though. I think he was a free agent signing out of NCAA.
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Post by catnut on Jul 9, 2005 9:29:13 GMT -5
In the late 80's the Red Wings had signed a player they drafted for oodles of cash. He wasn't 1st overall but he was an early pick. He played one or two games with Detroit before being sent down to the AHL, never to be seen again in the NHL. I can't remember the name though. I remember them signing Ray Staszak for a bucket of cash around the same time Joe Murphy was drafted. He ended playing 4 games. Don't think he was ever drafted though. I think he was a free agent signing out of NCAA. BINGO! I remembered all the hype about the signing. Being in college at the time, the details were a bit fuzzy...
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Post by Doc on Jul 9, 2005 11:57:02 GMT -5
I believe that he was one of two highly rated free agents from college. The other, I think, was Adam Oates.
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Post by Not2wonder on Jul 9, 2005 16:09:17 GMT -5
In the late 80's the Red Wings had signed a player they drafted for oodles of cash. He wasn't 1st overall but he was an early pick. He played one or two games with Detroit before being sent down to the AHL, never to be seen again in the NHL. I can't remember the name though. I remember the Wings having a guy named Kory Kocur in their system.... he was a first rounder in the late 80's... but I think he actually played a couple of full seasons in the AHL.... never made the NHL though. And in response to Woody..... Lawton is worse than Murphy, Stephan and Wickenheiser. Worse than Murphy because Murphy actually had a decent playoff with the '90 Oilers. Worse than Stephan (right now) because Stephen is still active and has time to shake the "bust" title that he currently posesses. Worse than Wickenheiser for two reasons. Firstly, had Wickenheiser been drafted by ANY other team to begin with, I strongly believe his career would've been dramatically altered. After being quite a force in junior, he was subjected to spending far too much time in the press box in Montreal...... THEN being put under the microscope by Habs fans and top brass alike because of it (ESPECIALLY once the comparisons to Denis Savard began to crop up). It got to the point where Doug's PARENTS ended up meeting with Irving Grundman to plead for a trade (he was shipped off to the Blues soon after). Such is a problem when you are a highly touted prospect trying to find a spot in the lineup against a team of a) seasoned veterans (who are also impact players... Lafleur, Gainey, Larouche, etc.) and b) more polished rookies (Acton, Carbonneau, etc.). Had almost any other team drafted him, Wickenheiser's career could very well have been the complete opposite of what it became (the next pick that year was Winnipeg's.. NO WAY he would've been in the stands as a Jet). BTW, I KNEW someone would bring up Wickenheiser as soon as I posted my original comment on Lawton earlier today. Also, Wickenheiser at least had ONE memorable moment..... does anyone else remember the "Monday Night Miracle"? Lawton is worse than Daigle because Daigle actually became a solid role player.. one of the better ones in the NHL, actually. Lawton wasn't even noticable in THAT role. Lawton is worse than Berard based on raw skill alone. Bottom line... Lawton was just bad.... at least as a #1 pick When Berard was drafted he was to become this super offensive dman.. he is mediocre at best... Brian Rafalski is better and Rafalski came in with no hype to live up to at all and yeah I am saying Berard is not among the top 50 defensemen in the NHL He wone the Calder trophy. Had 48 points as a rookie defenceman. He had the 2nd highest PPG ratio among defencmen in 03-04, behind only Gonchar (.82 to .81.) What is mediocre about that? What does hype have to do with it? Just because a player doesn't live up to the hype doesn't mean they're a bad player. If he hadn't missed 1.5 seasons with his eye injury, he would be the highest scoring defenceman from his draft. As it is, he's 2nd only to Redden by 20 points, and Redden has played over 100 more games than Berard. Ouch! someone getting schooled!
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Post by Sec21critic on Jul 9, 2005 19:49:22 GMT -5
I remember the Wings having a guy named Kory Kocur in their system.... he was a first rounder in the late 80's... but I think he actually played a couple of full seasons in the AHL.... never made the NHL though. And in response to Woody..... Lawton is worse than Murphy, Stephan and Wickenheiser. Worse than Murphy because Murphy actually had a decent playoff with the '90 Oilers. Worse than Stephan (right now) because Stephen is still active and has time to shake the "bust" title that he currently posesses. Worse than Wickenheiser for two reasons. Firstly, had Wickenheiser been drafted by ANY other team to begin with, I strongly believe his career would've been dramatically altered. After being quite a force in junior, he was subjected to spending far too much time in the press box in Montreal...... THEN being put under the microscope by Habs fans and top brass alike because of it (ESPECIALLY once the comparisons to Denis Savard began to crop up). It got to the point where Doug's PARENTS ended up meeting with Irving Grundman to plead for a trade (he was shipped off to the Blues soon after). Such is a problem when you are a highly touted prospect trying to find a spot in the lineup against a team of a) seasoned veterans (who are also impact players... Lafleur, Gainey, Larouche, etc.) and b) more polished rookies (Acton, Carbonneau, etc.). Had almost any other team drafted him, Wickenheiser's career could very well have been the complete opposite of what it became (the next pick that year was Winnipeg's.. NO WAY he would've been in the stands as a Jet). BTW, I KNEW someone would bring up Wickenheiser as soon as I posted my original comment on Lawton earlier today. Also, Wickenheiser at least had ONE memorable moment..... does anyone else remember the "Monday Night Miracle"? Lawton is worse than Daigle because Daigle actually became a solid role player.. one of the better ones in the NHL, actually. Lawton wasn't even noticable in THAT role. Lawton is worse than Berard based on raw skill alone. Bottom line... Lawton was just bad.... at least as a #1 pick When Berard was drafted he was to become this super offensive dman.. he is mediocre at best... Brian Rafalski is better and Rafalski came in with no hype to live up to at all and yeah I am saying Berard is not among the top 50 defensemen in the NHL He wone the Calder trophy. Had 48 points as a rookie defenceman. He had the 2nd highest PPG ratio among defencmen in 03-04, behind only Gonchar (.82 to .81.) What is mediocre about that? What does hype have to do with it? Just because a player doesn't live up to the hype doesn't mean they're a bad player. If he hadn't missed 1.5 seasons with his eye injury, he would be the highest scoring defenceman from his draft. As it is, he's 2nd only to Redden by 20 points, and Redden has played over 100 more games than Berard. Ouch! someone getting schooled! Schooled? That wasn't even a response to my post! (although based on how your response here reads, it LOOKS like I'm getting "schooled"... on a subject I didn't even venture into!) How the hell did you manage to quote MY post.... when the "schooling" post you refer to came BEFORE my post in this thread. The worst part is... I thought you actually wrote a completely coherent, well thought out post..... until I realized all you did was fuck up when using the quote function. There REALLY should be some sort of proficiancy test given before people can post on these boards.
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Post by wildcatsfan68 on Jul 10, 2005 9:52:35 GMT -5
he just another goon we cant win games in the penelty box wakey wakey
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