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Post by hockeyfan99 on Jul 6, 2005 10:55:54 GMT -5
Why would those FA make an impact during the season and not at the Memorial Cup...a guy in the Bergeron or Pelham mold would help at any point in the season or playoffs. Not sure how much you watched the Memorial Cup last year but the Memorial Cup is relatively short with a lot on the line so teams will play their top 2 lines into exhaustion, meaning that 4th line guys don't get any ice time and 3rd line guys were only used sparingly at best and only in more of a defensive role without a significant impact. None of the free agents you have brought in so far will be on the top two lines and I think you guys already have enough good players in your system to put together a reasonable third line. Don't forget every 19 yr old Free Agent that makes the team whether it be 3rd line / 4th line Defense or utility means that there is less ice time and one less spot for a developing player who will actually return next year. You guys already are going to be losing a lot so i am not sure why it APPEARS that Management is not interested in at least carrying a couple of guys to develop. It could go a long way to making the next 2 or 3 years a lot less painful for Moncton fans.
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Post by SteveUL on Jul 6, 2005 11:06:27 GMT -5
Next year and the year after simply don't matter here ... its all about winning it all this year and going with the best team that they think can accomplish that. This isn't a typical "go for it" year in Moncton ... this is a once in maybe 30 yr opportunity. I'd agree with you if we weren't hosting ... but since we are already there ... next year doesn't matter ... and we'll deal with that next June ... we've been there before.
But as it stands now ... if all of our current key pieces do report (Yandle, Saunders, Bernier, Bourque, Graham) ... how much are we giving up that affects next year ? Not nearly as much as you suggest. I think we will miss out on a few of these guys (Bernier and Yandle probably) ... and will cut a few deals to fill holes ... but it may not be so costly. If we had to get 4 top end players then yes we'd be selling the farm.
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Post by KBT on Jul 6, 2005 11:12:47 GMT -5
Don't forget every 19 yr old Free Agent that makes the team whether it be 3rd line / 4th line Defense or utility means that there is less ice time and one less spot for a developing player who will actually return next year. You guys already are going to be losing a lot so i am not sure why it APPEARS that Management is not interested in at least carrying a couple of guys to develop. It could go a long way to making the next 2 or 3 years a lot less painful for Moncton fans. Whatever the Wildcats management decides to do there will be at least 50% of the posters on this board who are against it....probably more like 66%. There are those who agree with everything, those who disagree with everything and those who either agree or disagree depending on the circumstance or who brought up the idea in the first place. If they gamble everything on winning the Memorial Cup the management will be criticized for not leaving anything in the cupboard to build on for the future. If they take the conservative route and lose the Cup they are going to flayed for not doing everything they could this year since they are guaranteed a spot in the Cup. It's a no win situation for them at every turn. Robert Irving will set the program and that's that. It's his money, his team.....and probably his puck.
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wow
Junior Member
Posts: 126
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Post by wow on Jul 6, 2005 11:34:56 GMT -5
i think you do everything you can to win if it means sell the farm do it.. worry about next year , next year.. like the old saying win now worry later...
i can handle being week for 1year or 2..
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Post by hockeyfan99 on Jul 6, 2005 11:54:30 GMT -5
Whoa I never said sell the farm (ie. trading prospects), my post was about developing players.
My comment was that as it stands now you have five 19 yr old free agents coming in, and out of those I would expect 2 maybe even 3 of them to make the team. And there are also other moves that might be made in Sept & in December. This in theory would occupy 2 - 4 spots that could be currently held by players from your protected roster. SO that means that Moncton will have less roster spots for players like ....
Marchand Chabot Samson Demers Tanguay Lessard Labelle and others in your system
And for the players that do make it (like Samson) they won't get much ice time. I agree that if you have a shot at the Memorial Cup then go for it and trade some prospects for high level talent if necessary. But my post was questioning why Management would bring in a couple of 19 yr old free agents to play on the 3rd & 4th lines in place of developing some younger players (especially when the top 5 forwards will all be gone next year) since in reality these players will have very little impact on which team wins the Memorial Cup.
I agree that you guys needed to acquire a free agent enforcer but that is only one player. And if I were a Moncton fan I would be very concerned with the development of the players listed above since they are going to be Moncton's future for the next 2 - 3 yrs.
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Post by SteveUL on Jul 6, 2005 12:20:39 GMT -5
No ... if you were a Moncton fan you wouldn't be concerned with that ... but since you are a Rocket fan you can pretend to be concerned just to increase your post count.
All players drafted this year will likely be sent back to Midget or to Jr A(AA) ...
All players drafted last year that didn't make the team will get their shot ... but must win a spot based on what they can do NOW ... not next year. Some may be traded.
All players that played last year as part-time players (Tanguay, Donovan, Demers, etc) will be given every opportunity to make the team ... but they have to be in the Top 25 of all players in camp ... some may be traded.
Nobody in Moncton is worried about "player development" ... only about winning this year.
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Post by Cristobal Huet on Jul 6, 2005 12:24:33 GMT -5
Whoa I never said sell the farm (ie. trading prospects), my post was about developing players. My comment was that as it stands now you have five 19 yr old free agents coming in, and out of those I would expect 2 maybe even 3 of them to make the team. And there are also other moves that might be made in Sept & in December. This in theory would occupy 2 - 4 spots that could be currently held by players from your protected roster. SO that means that Moncton will have less roster spots for players like .... Marchand Chabot Samson Demers Tanguay Lessard Labelle and others in your system And for the players that do make it (like Samson) they won't get much ice time. I agree that if you have a shot at the Memorial Cup then go for it and trade some prospects for high level talent if necessary. But my post was questioning why Management would bring in a couple of 19 yr old free agents to play on the 3rd & 4th lines in place of developing some younger players (especially when the top 5 forwards will all be gone next year) since in reality these players will have very little impact on which team wins the Memorial Cup. I agree that you guys needed to acquire a free agent enforcer but that is only one player. And if I were a Moncton fan I would be very concerned with the development of the players listed above since they are going to be Moncton's future for the next 2 - 3 yrs. If you get a shot a winning a Memorial Cup, player development takes somewhat of a backseat...although if you look at the forwards, there are only about 10-11 legit guys right now including Chabot Eagles Samson Marchand...Labelle and Lessard are pegged for another year MAAA. I think only one of the FA is a d-man(Moore is a d-man but will likely play the forward banger/enforcer role). There is already a lot of depth on defense, especially if Bartulis Saunders and Yandle show.
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Post by mikeb on Jul 6, 2005 12:31:50 GMT -5
The conference and league should be happy that Moncton is bringing in these FA. Just think, when they cut these 19 yr olds its a good chance for an expansion team or Bathurst to pick them up. You mean like when you guys picked up Hankin last year.
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Post by hockeyfan99 on Jul 6, 2005 12:50:42 GMT -5
Glad to hear that you guys aren't even a little interested in player development. I hope the contributions of your new 19 yr old Jr A Free Agents (whoever makes the team) are so good that is was worth stunting the development of several of your players. Personally I didn't see harm is giving guys like Samson or Chabot 3rd / 4th line ice time. But then again I am not a Moncton Fan.
With that kind of development philosphy you guys will be a league doormat for at least 2 yrs and rebuild for 3 - 4 yrs with that kind of development plan. Hope your fan base is loyal enough to support the team for that many dark years.
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Post by catnut on Jul 6, 2005 13:01:18 GMT -5
With that kind of development philosphy you guys will be a league doormat for at least 2 yrs and rebuild for 3 - 4 yrs with that kind of development plan. Hope your fan base is loyal enough to support the team for that many dark years. That line shows you still have a lot to learn about how this league works. There are years where you have to get into "go for it" mode. We are expecting 2 lean to very lean years depending on the number of holes to fill in our lineup, which is usually followed by much more decent years if you didn't panic during the first 2 years. By being the host, we have to move to "extreme go for it" mode. It doesn't take 5 years to rebuild. We emptied the cupboards more than any recent team in 2000 and we finished 4th 3 years later. With sound drafting and trading, you can shorten the length of the rebuilding process.
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Post by hockeyfan99 on Jul 6, 2005 13:16:11 GMT -5
With that kind of development philosphy you guys will be a league doormat for at least 2 yrs and rebuild for 3 - 4 yrs with that kind of development plan. Hope your fan base is loyal enough to support the team for that many dark years. That line shows you still have a lot to learn about how this league works. There are years where you have to get into "go for it" mode. We are expecting 2 lean to very lean years depending on the number of holes to fill in our lineup, which is usually followed by much more decent years if you didn't panic during the first 2 years. By being the host, we have to move to "extreme go for it" mode. It doesn't take 5 years to rebuild. We emptied the cupboards more than any recent team in 2000 and we finished 4th 3 years later. With sound drafting and trading, you can shorten the length of the rebuilding process. I understand how the league works and yes teams that want to go for it are generally top heavy meaning that they will need to spend a year or two rebuilding. But normally teams who are going for it also ensure that they at least have a couple of players developing on the 3rd & 4th lines. Talk on here suggests that you guys won't. Also you guys didn't draft a single forward or defensemen before round 4 this year and allowed last years first round draft pick to go via the expansion draft. And to top it all off if you guys decide to trade for any proven talent (which would be prudent) you will also have to give up some of the few prospects you have right now or high draft picks. To me that would suggests that you guys won't have many prospects ready to contribute for the next two years, maybe even three. Which means that your guys rebuilding process will be longer and more difficult than most teams who "Go for it".
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Post by PotatoesRGoodYum on Jul 6, 2005 13:16:14 GMT -5
also the fact there are two expansion teams in the league now will help Moncton a bit .... even with the stunted player development you would stand a better than average chance of not missing the playoffs the next couple of years simply because the new franchises will take 2-3 years to get realistically competitive
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Post by hockeyfan99 on Jul 6, 2005 13:20:24 GMT -5
Making the playoffs doesn't mean much if you are one of the worst teams in the league and get put out quickly in the first round.
Besides if you want to forget this year and only look at the next 2 - 3 I feel much better about St. John & St. John's potential.
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Post by PotatoesRGoodYum on Jul 6, 2005 13:38:04 GMT -5
well making the playoffs does mean something to team owners.. why do you think so many teams make the playoffs? for those extra 2-3 gates to help teams make money
I don't think St John's will be alot better next year than they will be this year
I agree with you in principle tho that they don't need to bring in so many western kids to play filler roles..
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Post by Not2wonder on Jul 6, 2005 18:59:56 GMT -5
Making the playoffs doesn't mean much if you are one of the worst teams in the league and get put out quickly in the first round. Besides if you want to forget this year and only look at the next 2 - 3 I feel much better about St. John & St. John's potential. Talking from experience........Rockets fan!
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