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Post by SteveUL on Apr 2, 2007 8:31:37 GMT -5
Halifax has been every bit as good as Moncton all year ... the season series of 3-3 shows that in the head to head match ups ... Halifax has more skill ... more talented players ... more experience. Just because you under-achieved all year is not our fault. Its quite telling with the series tied 3-3 that the regular season record is very similar ...nothing has changed. Moncton is not a better team ... just more consistent over the long haul ... especially on the road. In the pre-season prediction threads ... Halifax was selected to finish 3rd or 4th in the east by most ... but under-achieved. At the end of the year they finally started playing like they should have been playing all year ... what took you so long ? Its very sad that you come on here pointing the finger at Moncton for having a better season than your Moose ... its not our fault. I don't see how this makes sense at all. We underacheived (or were inconsistent) in the first half. The team most predicted would be 3rd-5th (with Bat/PEI) is the roster we had in November. They werent getting it done. We changed plans, and traded a ton of our experience (Saulnier, Poirer, Lomanno, Chaisson) and the biggest piece, Duchesne. We went with an unproven goaltending tandem the rest of the way, more or less making a first round exit fairly inevitable, but using the experience to work on developing the youth. Down the stretch, the team started to gel, mainly by scoring goals. The defense and goaltending has always had some consistency issues. And we are seeing it here in this series from game to game. I do feel we are/were playing better than Moncton down the stretch, and in the series. So you could argue we are as good or better, as some of you seem to be doing. But this all seems like a built-in excuse in case you lose to a 14th place team. Because you KNOW in future debates, there will be no Moncton fans looking back at this year saying "Halifax were better than Moncton that year"... all you have to do is point to the record and the final standings. Moncton had a great year, and are sputtering at playoff time. Moose are trying to take advantage of that and pull off the upset. Like LaLa said, we arent a team loaded in talent that has simply underacheived all year... we are a different team now than in December... it was a complete shift of strategy. We may have underacheived in the first half... and into February... but its only been the past month that we've overacheived. I think you have it backwards. Just because Moncton hit a slump pre-playoffs, while the moose hit a hot streak, doesnt mean we have always been the better team. If this is what you want to argue, than does this apply to future debates? We will discount the final standings when referring to this year, or other years when a higher seed gets knocked off? That will be a first on these boards. Had we played you guys in february, you probably would have been looking at a 5 or 6 game series win. Your 4th place, consistent team just went cold at the wrong time and ran into a hot team. They still have the advantage now though, game 7 at home after a big game 6 win. I think both teams are destined for a second round loss, but I'd still love to win the series and complete the upset, as the moose have been the better team so far. But our inconsistency has reared its ugly head at times in this series. And Moncton have looked very ordinary, after a very consistent, successful effort all year. It's been a bizarre series so far, completely unpredictable from period to period. Game 7 should be interesting. Lets hope we see one of the biggest upsets in years not involving Cape Breton, a 14th place team beating a fourth place team... PEI is alot like Halifax this year ... struggled out of the gate to find their way ... deleted a few players that maybe weren't good for the team ... added a few new pieces ... and finally started playing the way they were supposed to play all year. You seem to think deleting Saulnier and Lamano was downgrading your team ... yet all year before they were gone their play was criticized constantly. Poirier and Chaisson ? ... Give me a break ... Poirier played 5 games for you this year and Chaisson was tossed aside because he wasn't good enough at 19 to take ice away from younger players. Trading away Duchesne was a blow ... yes ... but you deleted some problems as well ... and added some talented players in Corsi, Cote and Monast ... and Bona has been surprisingly good. You lost in goaltending but improved your team in all other areas ... a net improvement on the whole judging by your post trade period play. Moncton has never been a better team than Halifax all year ... not better than PEI nor Bat either ... we are less skilled than all of those teams ... but played better as a team all year. Look at our records against Bat, Hal, PEI ... PEI owned us almost all year ... we split with Hal ... and had a 5-3 edge on the Titan (but had 5 homes games too) ... but stole at least two of those wins. The only difference in all these teams is for most of the season .... we won the games we were supposed to win ... stole a few wins that we weren't supposed to win ... and played well on the road. And we did that almost all year with very reliable goaltending ... the only real difference in this team from regular season to now ... not getting that reliable goaltending anymore. We didn't blow anybody out ... we don't score 8 and 9 goals a game ... 6 is rare ... we get scoring from alot of different guys but none of them are regular. We don't scare anybody and haven't scared anybody all year ... we can lose to anybody and we can beat anybody on any given night. Moncton doesn't win unless they work hard and get good goaltending ... we can't fall back on our skill and let it carry us through. The bottom line is that with the team that the Moose started the season with and the team that they have now ... they should have been a team in the 80 to 90 pt range ... the talent level is there but for some reason the will was not. Moncton finished 3rd in the east because PEI, Hal and Bat were major under-achievers ... SJ's and SJ were where they were supposed to be. Looking at the talent level that each team has ... Moncton should have finished 6th ... Hal, PEI and BAT should have battled down to the wire for 3rd. The problem with your arguement is that you believe that your team is and should be a 6th/14th place team. If you truly believed that then you would have never picked your team to win the series. I know my team is not a 4th overall calibre team ... we've had those here over the last 8 years and this isn't one of them. The things that vaulted Moncton to 4th were ... 1. The parity in the west forced some better teams to have to struggle to stay above 0.500 ... 2. PEI, Bat, Hal underachieved for a large part of the season ... 3. Moncton is well coached. You can go back and read many of my posts on how its baffling that this team was sitting in 2nd and 3rd overall for a large part of the season ... a weak PP ... weak PK ... top scorer had 70 pts ... loaded with rookies and Jr A callups ... being lead by returning players that were 3rd and 4th liners and backup goalies last year ... and had two new Euros that were busts. The only positives that jump out at you when you look at the roster are 3 very good 20 yr olds ... 2 good offensive Dmen ... and grinding center that is a great leader. How does this team finish 4th overall ... this is the makeup of a team that should struggle to stay above 0.500. Losing Samson was a huge loss only slightly tempered by the arrival of Lincourt ... Bourdon wasn't much of a loss as he wasn't here that long. The reality is that Moncton finished 4th and Hal finished 14th ... but the calibre of the two teams suggests that Hal should have finished 5th to 8th ... and Moncton 8th to 12th.
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Post by CrazyJoeDevola on Apr 2, 2007 9:01:18 GMT -5
I don't see how this makes sense at all. We underacheived (or were inconsistent) in the first half. The team most predicted would be 3rd-5th (with Bat/PEI) is the roster we had in November. They werent getting it done. We changed plans, and traded a ton of our experience (Saulnier, Poirer, Lomanno, Chaisson) and the biggest piece, Duchesne. We went with an unproven goaltending tandem the rest of the way, more or less making a first round exit fairly inevitable, but using the experience to work on developing the youth. Down the stretch, the team started to gel, mainly by scoring goals. The defense and goaltending has always had some consistency issues. And we are seeing it here in this series from game to game. I do feel we are/were playing better than Moncton down the stretch, and in the series. So you could argue we are as good or better, as some of you seem to be doing. But this all seems like a built-in excuse in case you lose to a 14th place team. Because you KNOW in future debates, there will be no Moncton fans looking back at this year saying "Halifax were better than Moncton that year"... all you have to do is point to the record and the final standings. Moncton had a great year, and are sputtering at playoff time. Moose are trying to take advantage of that and pull off the upset. Like LaLa said, we arent a team loaded in talent that has simply underacheived all year... we are a different team now than in December... it was a complete shift of strategy. We may have underacheived in the first half... and into February... but its only been the past month that we've overacheived. I think you have it backwards. Just because Moncton hit a slump pre-playoffs, while the moose hit a hot streak, doesnt mean we have always been the better team. If this is what you want to argue, than does this apply to future debates? We will discount the final standings when referring to this year, or other years when a higher seed gets knocked off? That will be a first on these boards. Had we played you guys in february, you probably would have been looking at a 5 or 6 game series win. Your 4th place, consistent team just went cold at the wrong time and ran into a hot team. They still have the advantage now though, game 7 at home after a big game 6 win. I think both teams are destined for a second round loss, but I'd still love to win the series and complete the upset, as the moose have been the better team so far. But our inconsistency has reared its ugly head at times in this series. And Moncton have looked very ordinary, after a very consistent, successful effort all year. It's been a bizarre series so far, completely unpredictable from period to period. Game 7 should be interesting. Lets hope we see one of the biggest upsets in years not involving Cape Breton, a 14th place team beating a fourth place team... PEI is alot like Halifax this year ... struggled out of the gate to find their way ... deleted a few players that maybe weren't good for the team ... added a few new pieces ... and finally started playing the way they were supposed to play all year. You seem to think deleting Saulnier and Lamano was downgrading your team ... yet all year before they were gone their play was criticized constantly. Poirier and Chaisson ? ... Give me a break ... Poirier played 5 games for you this year and Chaisson was tossed aside because he wasn't good enough at 19 to take ice away from younger players. All I mean by that is the team that was expected to battle for 3rd/5th included more veterans and a star goaltender. Poirer's injury meant we had Rodi Short and 15 year old O'Connor playing quite consistently in the first few months. And when Poirer did come back, well, the season was already in trouble and his addition didnt help us at all. But what I'm saying is THAT team was the one to do better (and lets not forget they were around .500, as were the other two I beleive). But it didnt turn out the way we hoped, and changed our plans. Went with youth primarily, and unproven goaltenders. Yes we ended up being improved, and I like what I see. But while we changed, Moncton finished 4th due to, as you say, consistency all year. That consistency should be enough to get you a 1st round win against a team that has lacked consistency all year, and still havent played with it. My point in this whole thing is that into February, anytime someone suggested Moncton werent as good as their rank would suggest, we were met with constant "jealousy" remarks and people saying stuff like "yeah well Xmas has come and gone and we are still winning... when will people start recognizing this team is no fluke"? etc.... So Moncton fans have been bragging about how great they are in a rebuilding year... but now that they arent playing well, we see the "well, we arent as good as the 4th place would suggest", and even more surprisingly "Halifax (14th) are just as good as us, its not an upset... we are the underdogs" Its just flip flopping.... but, as I said in another post, both sides are doing it. Out of towners who downplayed Moncton's success all year are now saying its a huge upset. Bottomline is, Moncton burned out as the season came to an end, and wont have a big playoff run despite finishing 4th. And Halifax started playing their best hockey, despite consistency (D and goaltending) issues. So as many people thought, the series has gone back and forth and we have game 7. I agree a Halifax series win, at this point in the season, will not be a surprise or a giant upset. But at the same time, Moncton SHOULD have won (maybe still will) based on the big gap in the final standings. The pre-season moose predictions were for a very different team. Its just happens that are BETTER now than before Xmas, but the moves at Xmas werent moves to make us better THIS year... and we struggled in Jan/Feb with this young team.
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Post by SteveUL on Apr 2, 2007 9:36:52 GMT -5
Moncton didn't burn out at all. They have played at a high tempo all year and won games all year by outworking their opponent. In the second half and especially down the stretch that became harder to do as teams were raising their games for the playoff stretch run ... teams were starting to match our intensity and we were no longer able to outwork other teams ... and then the games came down to skill when the work ethic was equalled.
The Cats have not outworked Halifax in any game ... maybe game 1 we had a slight edge ... game 3 we won but didn't deserve it ... game 6 was again a slight edge to Moncton but not in the 3rd period when it really mattered. Halifax's wins have come from out hustling Moncton and letting their skill advantage take over. With a decent goaltender in Halifax this series would be over in 5 ... but Yetman has kept Moncton in the series.
The Moose have always been a good team ... they just didn't believe in themselves ... a few lopsided wins coming down the stretch started making them believe that they were a dangerous team. The difference right now between the regular season Moose and the playoff Moose may simply be confidence.
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Post by CrazyJoeDevola on Apr 2, 2007 10:19:40 GMT -5
The Moose have always been a good team ... they just didn't believe in themselves ... a few lopsided wins coming down the stretch started making them believe that they were a dangerous team. The difference right now between the regular season Moose and the playoff Moose may simply be confidence. Sort of agree... confidence is at a high due to a strong final month. But we werent ALWAYS this team. The pre-Xmas team was a different team, on ice and attitude wise. Some vets couldnt deliver and they knew it. We've had the same roster for Feb/March, but it took some time to find good pairings, and good line combos. Guys like Monast and Corsi and Bona and Lund had to get used to playing a regular shift in all situations. It took the first couple months in 2007 to find the right mix, and get everyone on the same page. This isnt the same team we have had all season. The trades at Xmas pretty much makes that unarguable. We arent better than we ended up because we have consistency issues on D and goaltending, that are still evident. This reminds me of 2001, when we lost to Rimouski in 6 games in round 1. At that time, out of towners labelled our rebuild season as a failure at every opportunity they got as we not only lost in round 1, but also lost to an inferior Rimouski team. That moose team we were thin on talent and won games with hardwork and defence, and Rimouski had a number of guys return to the lineup after long injuries FRESH for the playoffs, and had more talent throughout when icing their full lineup. The teams were a .500 team vs. a .400 team who had injury problems until late in the year. So whenever moose fans argued it wasnt much of an upset as Rimouski were icing a team much better than their record suggested, they were met with the "excuses" and failure responses. We have been led by two 17 year olds in particular, and our defence core is 18 and younger. Our goalie is a Jr. A callup. You can say we were always this good but just underacheiving, but I think its more about us playing our best hockey at the right time, and Moncton DO seem burned out, or at the least, playing their worst hockey. This closes the gap between 4 and 14 IMO, and we get the close series we see now.
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Post by jimmy on Apr 2, 2007 10:40:37 GMT -5
The Moose have always been a good team ... they just didn't believe in themselves ... a few lopsided wins coming down the stretch started making them believe that they were a dangerous team. The difference right now between the regular season Moose and the playoff Moose may simply be confidence. Sort of agree... confidence is at a high due to a strong final month. But we werent ALWAYS this team. The pre-Xmas team was a different team, on ice and attitude wise. Some vets couldnt deliver and they knew it. We've had the same roster for Feb/March, but it took some time to find good pairings, and good line combos. Guys like Monast and Corsi and Bona and Lund had to get used to playing a regular shift in all situations. It took the first couple months in 2007 to find the right mix, and get everyone on the same page. This isnt the same team we have had all season. The trades at Xmas pretty much makes that unarguable. We arent better than we ended up because we have consistency issues on D and goaltending, that are still evident. This reminds me of 2001, when we lost to Rimouski in 6 games in round 1. At that time, out of towners labelled our rebuild season as a failure at every opportunity they got as we not only lost in round 1, but also lost to an inferior Rimouski team. That moose team we were thin on talent and won games with hardwork and defence, and Rimouski had a number of guys return to the lineup after long injuries FRESH for the playoffs, and had more talent throughout when icing their full lineup. The teams were a .500 team vs. a .400 team who had injury problems until late in the year. So whenever moose fans argued it wasnt much of an upset as Rimouski were icing a team much better than their record suggested, they were met with the "excuses" and failure responses. We have been led by two 17 year olds in particular, and our defence core is 18 and younger. Our goalie is a Jr. A callup. You can say we were always this good but just underacheiving, but I think its more about us playing our best hockey at the right time, and Moncton DO seem burned out, or at the least, playing their worst hockey. This closes the gap between 4 and 14 IMO, and we get the close series we see now. Hard to argue with any of that ... isn't it ironic how both teams (and their fans) are going out of the way to paint their team as the underdog ... there is virtually no cockiness on either side ... contrast that to the Bathurst series ... may the best team win!
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Post by CrazyJoeDevola on Apr 2, 2007 10:51:48 GMT -5
Sort of agree... confidence is at a high due to a strong final month. But we werent ALWAYS this team. The pre-Xmas team was a different team, on ice and attitude wise. Some vets couldnt deliver and they knew it. We've had the same roster for Feb/March, but it took some time to find good pairings, and good line combos. Guys like Monast and Corsi and Bona and Lund had to get used to playing a regular shift in all situations. It took the first couple months in 2007 to find the right mix, and get everyone on the same page. This isnt the same team we have had all season. The trades at Xmas pretty much makes that unarguable. We arent better than we ended up because we have consistency issues on D and goaltending, that are still evident. This reminds me of 2001, when we lost to Rimouski in 6 games in round 1. At that time, out of towners labelled our rebuild season as a failure at every opportunity they got as we not only lost in round 1, but also lost to an inferior Rimouski team. That moose team we were thin on talent and won games with hardwork and defence, and Rimouski had a number of guys return to the lineup after long injuries FRESH for the playoffs, and had more talent throughout when icing their full lineup. The teams were a .500 team vs. a .400 team who had injury problems until late in the year. So whenever moose fans argued it wasnt much of an upset as Rimouski were icing a team much better than their record suggested, they were met with the "excuses" and failure responses. We have been led by two 17 year olds in particular, and our defence core is 18 and younger. Our goalie is a Jr. A callup. You can say we were always this good but just underacheiving, but I think its more about us playing our best hockey at the right time, and Moncton DO seem burned out, or at the least, playing their worst hockey. This closes the gap between 4 and 14 IMO, and we get the close series we see now. Hard to argue with any of that ... isn't it ironic how both teams (and their fans) are going out of the way to paint their team as the underdog ... there is virtually no cockiness on either side ... contrast that to the Bathurst series ... may the best team win! LOL pre series analysis's had each board (and the team followers) justifying why they were the better team and would win. Now its "We suck.... no WE suck... no WE suck more... no WE do, were young.... no WE do, we overacheived.... no WE do, were 14th".....
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Post by Not2wonder on Apr 2, 2007 10:54:43 GMT -5
Little of Cockiness........CHSB...............Fred! who else ;D
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Post by lalalaprise on Apr 2, 2007 12:05:34 GMT -5
Halifax finished 14th because they arent as good as Moncton who finished 4th. You guys can slice and dice it all you want...fact is Halifax traded away vets at the deadline and we got younger. Its not like Halifax has impact players and they underacheived all season. Plus, Halifax's young players arent rookies but they are just as young as Moncton's players. I see people talking about "13 rookies" for Moncton, but both teams avg age is about the same. I just honestly dont get why so many Moncton fans on here think Halifax is the better team on paper...4th vs 14th is a huge difference in standing. Halifax has been every bit as good as Moncton all year ... the season series of 3-3 shows that in the head to head match ups ... Halifax has more skill ... more talented players ... more experience. Just because you under-achieved all year is not our fault. Its quite telling with the series tied 3-3 that the regular season record is very similar ...nothing has changed. Moncton is not a better team ... just more consistent over the long haul ... especially on the road. In the pre-season prediction threads ... Halifax was selected to finish 3rd or 4th in the east by most ... but under-achieved. At the end of the year they finally started playing like they should have been playing all year ... what took you so long ? Its very sad that you come on here pointing the finger at Moncton for having a better season than your Moose ... its not our fault. I dont think Halifax undercheived at all. Name the players on the roster who underachieved....there are maybe 3-4 of them. If anything more guys played a lot better than we expected they would back in August. Steve, im not pointing the finger at anyone...but to say Moncton is an underdog and not expect me to reply isnt sad...its just normal message board stuff.
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Post by SteveUL on Apr 2, 2007 12:54:15 GMT -5
Halifax has been every bit as good as Moncton all year ... the season series of 3-3 shows that in the head to head match ups ... Halifax has more skill ... more talented players ... more experience. Just because you under-achieved all year is not our fault. Its quite telling with the series tied 3-3 that the regular season record is very similar ...nothing has changed. Moncton is not a better team ... just more consistent over the long haul ... especially on the road. In the pre-season prediction threads ... Halifax was selected to finish 3rd or 4th in the east by most ... but under-achieved. At the end of the year they finally started playing like they should have been playing all year ... what took you so long ? Its very sad that you come on here pointing the finger at Moncton for having a better season than your Moose ... its not our fault. I dont think Halifax undercheived at all. Name the players on the roster who underachieved....there are maybe 3-4 of them. If anything more guys played a lot better than we expected they would back in August. Steve, im not pointing the finger at anyone...but to say Moncton is an underdog and not expect me to reply isnt sad...its just normal message board stuff. Your team as a whole has under-achieved ... perhaps more a coaching issue than a player issue. If we go back to the Septemeber thread on the Mooseboard and look up your projections ... where would we find your ranking of the Moose ... and Moncton ? ;D I'll let you answer ... I already know the answer. I'm not suggesting Moncton is an underdog at all ... the series is tied 3-3 and so its anybody's to win. Its not your typical 4 vs 14 series is what I'm saying ... Moncton is 4th overall because 14 other teams couldn't find it in themselves to play better over the 70 game season. But there are certainly better teams ... more powerful ... more talented ... that just couldn't put it altogether and play up to their potential. The parity in the west made it tough for teams to get ahead as every night you were facing a team that could beat you ... very few easy games ... so they have an excuse. But Bathurst, Halifax and PEI do not ... 3 teams with more skill and experience than Moncton ... yet they still couldn't put it altogether over the 70 game season. Halifax did late ... bathurst had it going in November ... PEI was solid in February but sputtered a little down the stretch ... but these three teams played most of the season hoping for better ... very inconsistent. The difference is now ... Moncton can't play better ... this is as good as they can play .... hard work and bang in a few around the net ... but Halifax, PEI and Bathurst can play better than they showed through the regular season ... better than their record shows.
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Post by Fred The Moose on Apr 2, 2007 16:09:53 GMT -5
Well tomorrow will be a great final for this series and Pussycats will go to golf couse on Wednesday and Mr.Robert Irving will buy them all their memberships and trade their boots for shoes and hope he will be able to sign Claude Julin for next season...
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Post by SteveUL on Apr 2, 2007 18:35:42 GMT -5
Well tomorrow will be a great final for this series and Pussycats will go to golf couse on Wednesday and Mr.Robert Irving will buy them all their memberships and trade their boots for shoes and hope he will be able to sign Claude Julin for next season... ... and Fred the Moose will get caught in the men's room again in another compromisng position ...
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Post by Not2wonder on Apr 3, 2007 7:05:46 GMT -5
Well tomorrow will be a great final for this series and Pussycats will go to golf couse on Wednesday and Mr.Robert Irving will buy them all their memberships and trade their boots for shoes and hope he will be able to sign Claude Julin for next season... Is that you Btitan/CHSB?
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Post by hipsterdoofus on Apr 3, 2007 7:58:53 GMT -5
I'm a little confused here... when you say 7th player...are you refering to the refs or the fans
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Post by Ace on Apr 3, 2007 8:03:00 GMT -5
I'm a little confused here... when you say 7th player...are you refering to the refs or the fans Use your head man. It has to be the fans cause the refs are being paid. ;D
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Milo
Full Member
Posts: 373
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Post by Milo on Apr 3, 2007 11:35:28 GMT -5
Getting back to the "who's the underdog" debate for a second, here are the odds taken from sports betting site bwin.com.... take it for what it's worth. Moncton regulation win: -250 (1.40) Halifax regulation win: +330 (4.30) OT +500 (6.00) That's some DAMN good value on Halifax.
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