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Post by jimmy on Nov 17, 2006 12:02:05 GMT -5
Another reason the Vancouver story makes no sense:
If the Canucks said we will only return Bourdon if you promise not to trade him - we could have said good enough- keep him, and kept Samson for ourselves (remember he will be back next year)...
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Post by Cristobal Huet on Nov 17, 2006 12:08:20 GMT -5
NHL teams invest alot in their top prospects and want to make sure they develop while not playing for them in the NHL or their minor league teams. Would it not be reasonable to think that NHL teams do talk with their prospect's junior team to see if their prospect will be properly looked after while playing junior? Or that they may make suggestions or requests to the junior team regarding their prospects? To me, it would not be surprising to have Vancouver talk with Moncton to see how Bourdon is going to fit in the Wildcats plans or what the Wildcats intentions are regarding Bourdon before they sent him back to junior. Vancouver might have asked that Moncton don't trade Bourdon because they feel Bourdon is better off playing for Moncton development wise. It is not entirely out of the question to see Vancouver make an agreement with the Wildcats where Moncton promises not to trade Bourdon in return for Vancouver giving something back in return (ie Canuck scouts keeping an eye out for junior prospects for Moncton, Europeans, etc). But I don't think they would have made any demands to Moncton about not trading Bourdon because Moncton has every right to trade Bourdon if they wish, they own his junior rights, Vancouver doesn't. From a Wildcats point of view it may be in their best interests to trade Bourdon especially if they are in a rebuilding process, but from a Vancouver's point of view it may in their best interests to have Bourdon play for Moncton. But ultimately it is Moncton's decision and perogative what they do with Bourdon. I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me why the Cats care what Vancouver thinks or wants. It's not like trading Bourdon to Lewy Gatineau or CB would be screwing the Canucks or Bourdon in any way.
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 17, 2006 12:11:36 GMT -5
NHL teams invest alot in their top prospects and want to make sure they develop while not playing for them in the NHL or their minor league teams. Would it not be reasonable to think that NHL teams do talk with their prospect's junior team to see if their prospect will be properly looked after while playing junior? Or that they may make suggestions or requests to the junior team regarding their prospects? To me, it would not be surprising to have Vancouver talk with Moncton to see how Bourdon is going to fit in the Wildcats plans or what the Wildcats intentions are regarding Bourdon before they sent him back to junior. Vancouver might have asked that Moncton don't trade Bourdon because they feel Bourdon is better off playing for Moncton development wise. It is not entirely out of the question to see Vancouver make an agreement with the Wildcats where Moncton promises not to trade Bourdon in return for Vancouver giving something back in return (ie Canuck scouts keeping an eye out for junior prospects for Moncton, Europeans, etc). But I don't think they would have made any demands to Moncton about not trading Bourdon because Moncton has every right to trade Bourdon if they wish, they own his junior rights, Vancouver doesn't. From a Wildcats point of view it may be in their best interests to trade Bourdon especially if they are in a rebuilding process, but from a Vancouver's point of view it may in their best interests to have Bourdon play for Moncton. But ultimately it is Moncton's decision and perogative what they do with Bourdon. I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me why the Cats care what Vancouver thinks or wants. It's not like trading Bourdon to Lewy Gatineau or CB would be screwing the Canucks or Bourdon in any way. I agree ... If this glitch does exist I don't think it comes from Vancouver ... I think it comes from Val D'Or.
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Post by wingman on Nov 17, 2006 12:18:24 GMT -5
I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me why the Cats care what Vancouver thinks or wants. It's not like trading Bourdon to Lewy Gatineau or CB would be screwing the Canucks or Bourdon in any way. Moncton has no reason to care and no reason to oblige Vancouver, but it doesn't mean that Moncton won't be listening to any requests that Vancouver or any other NHL team has regarding their prospects. It might be a case of you help us, we will help you, Moncton doesn't have to listen to anybody if they don't want to.
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Post by Cristobal Huet on Nov 17, 2006 12:27:44 GMT -5
I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me why the Cats care what Vancouver thinks or wants. It's not like trading Bourdon to Lewy Gatineau or CB would be screwing the Canucks or Bourdon in any way. Moncton has no reason to care and no reason to oblige Vancouver, but it doesn't mean that Moncton won't be listening to any requests that Vancouver or any other NHL team has regarding their prospects. It might be a case of you help us, we will help you, Moncton doesn't have to listen to anybody if they don't want to. That was my whole point, Vancouver's wants and opinions don't really matter.
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Post by wingman on Nov 17, 2006 12:53:22 GMT -5
I never said that Moncton were obliged to do what Vancouver wanted or whether they should give a damn what Vancouver thinks, was just making the point that sometimes NHL teams and junior teams help each other out when it comes to players or personel and that it possibly could have been the case here.
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Post by Porkchop on Nov 17, 2006 13:02:24 GMT -5
Moncton has no reason to care and no reason to oblige Vancouver, but it doesn't mean that Moncton won't be listening to any requests that Vancouver or any other NHL team has regarding their prospects. It might be a case of you help us, we will help you, Moncton doesn't have to listen to anybody if they don't want to. That was my whole point, Vancouver's wants and opinions don't really matter. They might not matter to you, but they might to the Cats......say next June Vancouver drafts a high end Euro, who suddenly ends up in Moncton.........if the case is they want Bourdon to stay in Moncton, I think it would be best for the Cats to do what they want.......
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 17, 2006 14:21:35 GMT -5
That was my whole point, Vancouver's wants and opinions don't really matter. They might not matter to you, but they might to the Cats......say next June Vancouver drafts a high end Euro, who suddenly ends up in Moncton.........if the case is they want Bourdon to stay in Moncton, I think it would be best for the Cats to do what they want....... Well if we go against any wishes of Vancouver ... it would be smart to stay away from any Euros that Vancouver already owns. We went against what St. Louis wanted a few years back (on trading Shkotov or Karsums) and they took Zakharov away and plopped him down in the AHL where he didn't really belong ... he wasn't ready. And they took him while giving us very short notice.
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Post by Dirty Afanasenkov on Nov 17, 2006 14:49:49 GMT -5
And we've seen what having a good relationship with an NHL team can do as well. See: Columbus
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Post by Cristobal Huet on Nov 17, 2006 21:47:29 GMT -5
They might not matter to you, but they might to the Cats......say next June Vancouver drafts a high end Euro, who suddenly ends up in Moncton.........if the case is they want Bourdon to stay in Moncton, I think it would be best for the Cats to do what they want....... Well if we go against any wishes of Vancouver ... it would be smart to stay away from any Euros that Vancouver already owns. We went against what St. Louis wanted a few years back (on trading Shkotov or Karsums) and they took Zakharov away and plopped him down in the AHL where he didn't really belong ... he wasn't ready. And they took him while giving us very short notice. There are 29 other teams...and within a few years Vancouver will probably have a new coach and GM.
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Post by MacKevin on Nov 17, 2006 22:27:05 GMT -5
And we've seen what having a good relationship with an NHL team can do as well. See: Columbus The good relationship with Columbus goes back to childhood friends and is not the same as a business relationship.
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 18, 2006 11:57:04 GMT -5
Well if we go against any wishes of Vancouver ... it would be smart to stay away from any Euros that Vancouver already owns. We went against what St. Louis wanted a few years back (on trading Shkotov or Karsums) and they took Zakharov away and plopped him down in the AHL where he didn't really belong ... he wasn't ready. And they took him while giving us very short notice. There are 29 other teams...and within a few years Vancouver will probably have a new coach and GM. 28 ... St. Louis doesn't like us anymore.
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phaneuf
New Member
The D-Trains Never Late
Posts: 18
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Post by phaneuf on Nov 18, 2006 17:19:51 GMT -5
I imagine that Bourdon will be traded at Xmas, although CB is looking for a defenceman i doubt Pascal is gonna give up much to get Bourdon. Whoever trades for Bourdon is gonna be shakin up there alread gellin team a bit to find the right deal. Nevertheless...
Vancouver will be a "filter". Torchetti will have to run by (whatever is in the mixes) through Van. first. (just my opinion).
The cats got a good little team, if they can strike the right deal for the cats by getting rid of Bourdon and picking up 2 solid players, and or good pick in there. They'd be solid again next year, Afterall.......they did fine all year without bourdon, so basicaly by striking a good deal for young guns, they'd more then break even for next season. Torchetti would be stupid to keep Bourdon around......... IMO..
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Post by MacKevin on Nov 18, 2006 19:54:26 GMT -5
I imagine that Bourdon will be traded at Xmas, although CB is looking for a defenceman i doubt Pascal is gonna give up much to get Bourdon. Whoever trades for Bourdon is gonna be shakin up there alread gellin team a bit to find the right deal. Nevertheless... Vancouver will be a "filter". Torchetti will have to run by (whatever is in the mixes) through Van. first. (just my opinion). The cats got a good little team, if they can strike the right deal for the cats by getting rid of Bourdon and picking up 2 solid players, and or good pick in there. They'd be solid again next year, Afterall.......they did fine all year without bourdon, so basicaly by striking a good deal for young guns, they'd more then break even for next season. Torchetti would be stupid to keep Bourdon around......... IMO.. Here's the thing. CB has the chance to go for it this year period. So far they are lacking. Bourdon is the surest thing in the Q to give them a chance. They need him worse then we need to trade him to them. If they want him they will pay what we ask for as we did last year. With Bourdon's injury we didn't get what we paid for but CB definitely would because this year he is always the best player on the ice. He is another level. m
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Post by curtis on Nov 19, 2006 12:21:30 GMT -5
CB could keep either Bourdon or Bartulis on the ice for pretty much the entire game (assuming not a lot of overlap on PP or PK....I'd try to keep them paired seperately). That would really help them control the flow of the game, always having someone with that kind of puck moving ability out there.
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