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Post by KBT on Jul 21, 2004 22:37:35 GMT -5
You obviously have a huge bias against Sanford. No, I don't. I've never spoken to him and he's never done anything to me personally that I can think of. I've said he has the talent for the Q, I just don't think he's as great as some people seem to think. If he was he'd have been drafted by someone.....anyone. I guess every scout and all the management of all the leagues above the Q have biases as well. You mentioned that the biggest problem is probably size, I'm sure you're right, but he's bigger than Paul Coffey and Theo Fleury, that's why I mentioned them. I didn't say Sanford is a bum, but I also didn't say he was a superstar.
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Post by Your Daddy on Jul 22, 2004 8:56:08 GMT -5
No, I don't. I've never spoken to him and he's never done anything to me personally that I can think of. I've said he has the talent for the Q, I just don't think he's as great as some people seem to think. If he was he'd have been drafted by someone.....anyone. I guess every scout and all the management of all the leagues above the Q have biases as well. You mentioned that the biggest problem is probably size, I'm sure you're right, but he's bigger than Paul Coffey and Theo Fleury, that's why I mentioned them. I didn't say Sanford is a bum, but I also didn't say he was a superstar. Size IS a big deal in the NHL. It took Martin St.Louis like 5-6 years before he got a real shot at the NHL and he ended up winning the scoring title 2 years later so that tells you that even with great skill, smaller guys don't always get their shot. Coffey was a good sized d-man, not sure where you have him as small, he played at 6' 195 or 200lbs and played before size started being such a big deal. Same thing for Fleury, he was a late round pick and started out 15 years ago before they started drafting all guys 6'2" or bigger. I'm not saying Sanford is perfect but you chose to only look at his flaws and never mention all the great plays he has made and the contributions, sounds like a bias to me.
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Post by KBT on Jul 22, 2004 10:16:35 GMT -5
Size IS a big deal in the NHL. It took Martin St.Louis like 5-6 years before he got a real shot at the NHL and he ended up winning the scoring title 2 years later so that tells you that even with great skill, smaller guys don't always get their shot. Coffey was a good sized d-man, not sure where you have him as small, he played at 6' 195 or 200lbs and played before size started being such a big deal. Same thing for Fleury, he was a late round pick and started out 15 years ago before they started drafting all guys 6'2" or bigger. I'm not saying Sanford is perfect but you chose to only look at his flaws and never mention all the great plays he has made and the contributions, sounds like a bias to me. I don't know where you get your information, but Paul Coffey is no more than about 5'7". Sometimes the team stats are inflated, but when you're 5'8'' tall like me and stand beside him shaking his hand you realize that he's shorter than you. I agree with you that size is a huge factor in the NHL. It didn't start 15 years ago though, it began back in the late 60's and early 70's. Everyone started looking for bigger players back then. As the years have rolled on more and more big guys have been drafted, but a small guy can still make it. It's harder for the smaller guys, but they can still make it. You accuse me of bias because I mentioned a couple of his shortcomings but in the same sentence I originally said that I'd seen him make some great plays. It's not all roses, he's made mistakes. I never claimed that he is the only player that makes mistakes, but you can't deny that he's made them. Also, Martins Karsums was drafted by Boston this year, after only one year in the Q and he's certainly no bigger than Sanford.
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Post by kevindramsay on Jul 22, 2004 10:34:31 GMT -5
I didn't say Sanford is a bum, Well I will say it. He's a bum!! ;D ;D
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Post by Doc on Jul 22, 2004 11:14:00 GMT -5
I don't know where you get your information, but Paul Coffey is no more than about 5'7". Sometimes the team stats are inflated, but when you're 5'8'' tall like me and stand beside him shaking his hand you realize that he's shorter than you. I agree with you that size is a huge factor in the NHL. It didn't start 15 years ago though, it began back in the late 60's and early 70's. Everyone started looking for bigger players back then. As the years have rolled on more and more big guys have been drafted, but a small guy can still make it. It's harder for the smaller guys, but they can still make it. You accuse me of bias because I mentioned a couple of his shortcomings but in the same sentence I originally said that I'd seen him make some great plays. It's not all roses, he's made mistakes. I never claimed that he is the only player that makes mistakes, but you can't deny that he's made them. Also, Martins Karsums was drafted by Boston this year, after only one year in the Q and he's certainly no bigger than Sanford. FYI...and Karsums is 2" taller than Sanford. #74 Paul Coffey Boston Bruins | Roster | Team Stats Height: 6-0 Weight: 205 lbs. Pos: D Shoots: Left Age: 42 Born: June 1, 1961, Weston Drafted: Year: 1980 Round: 1 Pick: 6 by Edmonton
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Post by Sakss23 on Jul 22, 2004 11:20:21 GMT -5
LOL @ Coffey being 5'7" ;D
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Post by SteveUL on Jul 22, 2004 11:35:17 GMT -5
FYI...and Karsums is 2" taller than Sanford. And a forward ... not many 5'10" (if thats what Sanford really is) Dmen in the NHL.
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Post by duffman on Jul 22, 2004 12:43:37 GMT -5
Oh KBT get over it... I don't know if Sanford took your spot on a team or if maybe your kid did not get the attention that Sanford got here in Moncton. Whatever the reason you have a lot of hate for a 20 year old hockey player.
Sanford is a great hockey player his career to date speaks to that and does not have to be defended to an jealous fool. How many all star teams, MVP awards, points does he have to score before you open your eyes.
You have to be the no brain that sits behind me jeering Sanford everytime something bad happens on the ice. One night Sanford had 5 points on 5 goals and lost the puck in the neutral Zone...someone...possibly you yells out Sanford you suck!! 5 points on 5 goals...c'mon.
There is no shame in being undersized but there will be less talented players in the NHL next year because they are 6'4" 240 lbs. There is no shame in going to Europe for 30-110 grand+car+apartment...how much money were you making at 21? The NHL is the best pro league but not the only place to earn a paycheck.
As scrappy as Sanford is I would not count him out of getting a shot at the big show, skating and puckhandling still count for something.
Coffey is taller than 5'7"...but he was also one of the best skaters in the world playing in a wide open league you are comparing apples to oranges the game has changed.
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Post by SteveUL on Jul 22, 2004 14:11:33 GMT -5
Oh KBT get over it... I don't know if Sanford took your spot on a team or if maybe your kid did not get the attention that Sanford got here in Moncton. Whatever the reason you have a lot of hate for a 20 year old hockey player. Sanford is a great hockey player his career to date speaks to that and does not have to be defended to an jealous fool. How many all star teams, MVP awards, points does he have to score before you open your eyes. You have to be the no brain that sits behind me jeering Sanford everytime something bad happens on the ice. One night Sanford had 5 points on 5 goals and lost the puck in the neutral Zone...someone...possibly you yells out Sanford you suck!! 5 points on 5 goals...c'mon. There is no shame in being undersized but there will be less talented players in the NHL next year because they are 6'4" 240 lbs. There is no shame in going to Europe for 30-110 grand+car+apartment...how much money were you making at 21? The NHL is the best pro league but not the only place to earn a paycheck. As scrappy as Sanford is I would not count him out of getting a shot at the big show, skating and puckhandling still count for something. Coffey is taller than 5'7"...but he was also one of the best skaters in the world playing in a wide open league you are comparing apples to oranges the game has changed. Yeah !!
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MikeC
Full Member
Posts: 454
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Post by MikeC on Jul 22, 2004 14:38:17 GMT -5
I don't know where you get your information, but Paul Coffey is no more than about 5'7". Sometimes the team stats are inflated, but when you're 5'8'' tall like me and stand beside him shaking his hand you realize that he's shorter than you. I agree with you that size is a huge factor in the NHL. It didn't start 15 years ago though, it began back in the late 60's and early 70's. Everyone started looking for bigger players back then. As the years have rolled on more and more big guys have been drafted, but a small guy can still make it. It's harder for the smaller guys, but they can still make it. You accuse me of bias because I mentioned a couple of his shortcomings but in the same sentence I originally said that I'd seen him make some great plays. It's not all roses, he's made mistakes. I never claimed that he is the only player that makes mistakes, but you can't deny that he's made them. Also, Martins Karsums was drafted by Boston this year, after only one year in the Q and he's certainly no bigger than Sanford. Coffey is 6'0"-6'1" and 200-205lbs. I've even heard some people say he was closer to 215-220lbs. There were only 20 defencemen under 6'0" who played a game in the NHL last tear, less than 1 per team. And only 3 that were under 5'10". Of those 20, 8 were free agent signings, and 3 were drafted in their mid-20s. 2 things to take form this: There aren't many small defencemen in the NHL. Small defencemen aren't highly thought of at the draft table.
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Post by Wildbruins© on Jul 22, 2004 15:45:32 GMT -5
I would rather have James Sanford at 5'8" than Hall Gill who is a 6'7" 255lbs telephone pole, hie has a long raech but is still as useless as a there is.
My favorite D's of all time aren't the biggest like Pronger and Blake
There more like Bobby Orr - different Era but he wasn't that Big @ 6' 200lbs Ray Bourque was 5'11" or 6' 200lbsdepending were you look Jonathan Girard is as tall but only listed at 190
Pierre Pilote who played for Chicago was only 5'7 180 lbs...but That was ok in the 60's
I still think James should be given a chance somewhere
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Post by KBT on Jul 22, 2004 16:13:06 GMT -5
Oh KBT get over it... I don't know if Sanford took your spot on a team or if maybe your kid did not get the attention that Sanford got here in Moncton. Whatever the reason you have a lot of hate for a 20 year old hockey player. Sanford is a great hockey player his career to date speaks to that and does not have to be defended to an jealous fool. How many all star teams, MVP awards, points does he have to score before you open your eyes. You have to be the no brain that sits behind me jeering Sanford everytime something bad happens on the ice. One night Sanford had 5 points on 5 goals and lost the puck in the neutral Zone...someone...possibly you yells out Sanford you suck!! 5 points on 5 goals...c'mon. There is no shame in being undersized but there will be less talented players in the NHL next year because they are 6'4" 240 lbs. There is no shame in going to Europe for 30-110 grand+car+apartment...how much money were you making at 21? The NHL is the best pro league but not the only place to earn a paycheck. As scrappy as Sanford is I would not count him out of getting a shot at the big show, skating and puckhandling still count for something. Coffey is taller than 5'7"...but he was also one of the best skaters in the world playing in a wide open league you are comparing apples to oranges the game has changed. There's a lot of open space between not thinking he's the greatest player we've got and hating/being jealous of him. I don't know who was jeering him, but it wasn't me. I don't call down our players in our rink....even if I don't think they're the best in the league. I'm one of those guys that always thought Gretzky was the best I'd ever seen, but I've had my share of people insult me because they believe Mario is the best, others believe in Maurice Richard, Guy Lafleur etc. Know what? I don't care...I still believe Gretzky is the best hockey player ever to have played followed closely by Bobby Orr.
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Post by KBT on Jul 22, 2004 17:25:48 GMT -5
LOL @ Coffey being 5'7" ;D I have to admit I was completely wrong about Coffey's stats. I have no idea where I got my information or who I was thinking of....fading memory...old age. It was a lot of years ago that I met him. Doc posted the correct stats.
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Post by Doc on Jul 22, 2004 18:59:30 GMT -5
I would rather have James Sanford at 5'8" than Hall Gill who is a 6'7" 255lbs telephone pole, hie has a long raech but is still as useless as a there is. My favorite D's of all time aren't the biggest like Pronger and Blake There more like Bobby Orr - different Era but he wasn't that Big @ 6' 200lbs Ray Bourque was 5'11" or 6' 200lbsdepending were you look Jonathan Girard is as tall but only listed at 190 Pierre Pilote who played for Chicago was only 5'7 180 lbs...but That was ok in the 60's I still think James should be given a chance somewhere Regarding the diminuitive Pierre Pilote ... in a previous life, I worked in the advertising industry (in Toronto, but don't hold that against me : . One of my key accounts was Miller Lite, of "Tastes Great/Less Filling" fame. Our commercials featured many famous athletes and one included Pierre Pilote, Eddie Shack, Bob Baun, Bill White and Gordie Howe. I have many fond memories of our shoot that day (some I hadn't better share) but a vivid memory was meeting Pierre Pilote. The year was circa 1988 and I was in my mid thirties. Pierre Pilote had been a stallward for the Black Hawks and during his career won the Norris Trophy. What struck me when I met him was how tiny he was. Granted, this was 20 years after he retired but the man was no more than 5'7" and 140 lbs. I'm talkin' SMALL ! What many of you young bucks don't seem to factor in to your perspectives which compare players from different eras is evolution. In 1968, prior to expansion there were only a dozen players in the 6 team NHL league who were taller than 6' and weighed more than 200 Lbs. ( For perspective the Cats probably had 8 players on their junior team, last year, who were over 6' and weighed more than 200 Lbs). So comparing players today, to those from another generation doesn't carry much "weight" Yes, Sanford is "very short" in height, but long on heart and by any standard a "Q" league All Star. If he never makes it to the NHL it will be largely attributable to the fact that now, more than ever, size does matter.
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