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Post by KBT on Jun 16, 2005 12:58:48 GMT -5
It's been six months since the Wildcats management made room for Caron by releasing Salvis and trading Pelham. We've now got the benefit of hindsight and cooler tempers to have a better look at that move.
I still can't understand why the Wildcats management took a chance on weakening the #1 team overall and #1 defensive unit. I've always believed the old adage, "If it aint' broke, don't fix it." Pelham was entertaining and could open up ice but wasn't the impact player that Salvis was. I know Salvis wasn't a big gun on the scoring charts, but he was the hardest worker on the team day in and day out. He was definately the heart and soul of the team. With the departure of Salvis and the return of Caron the whole demeanor of the team seemed to take a huge downward turn. I know the idea was to make the team better, but we were already # 1.
Caron was at best a minor impact player in my mind. He showed so much promise early on, but never seemed to blossom. He quit the Cats and went to the U.S. for a shot at the pros....then quit them to come back to the Cats. I know, I know.....he wanted to move forward in his career.....it didn't work out. He was drafted # 261 overall by Anaheim in the 9th round....not a ringing endorsement of his abilities. Now he's going to play semi-pro (industrial league) in Chicoutimi while going to college.
I don't blame Caron for the injuries to either himself or Karsums or Graham but I think that the loss of Salvis for Caron took the heart out of the players and the injuries were too much to overcome with no-one like Salvis to pump them up and lead the way. Salvis lead by example.
I doubt that we would have beat Rimouski in any event, but I really think that Caron's return and the departure of Salvis sealed the deal.
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Post by jimmy on Jun 16, 2005 13:05:20 GMT -5
The way I see it, losing Salvis was a turning point and the team never recovered. To be fair, we don't know what would have happened had Caron not gotten hurt. At the time of the move, the idea was, lets add a top pair defenseman to our team by deleting a second line forward. Had it all panned out, maybe the Cats are a better team. But what ended up happening was we deleted a second line forward (who also happened to be the heart and soul type), and got nothing back (since Caron basically didn't play - his injury took him out for most of the season). Add to that injuries to three more forwards from our top two lines (Pineault, Karsums, and Graham) that kept them out most of the seocnd half, and suddenly our offense was impotent, and we did not strengthen our defense ... and the wheels fell off.
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Post by Cristobal Huet on Jun 16, 2005 13:05:28 GMT -5
Caron coming and Salvis leaving were not directly related...Glode was to be the odd man out along with Pelham until Graham got hurt so they kept Glode instead.
One thing I didn't understand is getting both Caron and doing the Welton trade...Bartulis was already there as an offensive d-man.
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Post by Cristobal Huet on Jun 16, 2005 13:12:27 GMT -5
The way I see it, losing Salvis was a turning point and the team never recovered. To be fair, we don't know what would have happened had Caron not gotten hurt. At the time of the move, the idea was, lets add a top pair defenseman to our team by deleting a second line forward. Had it all panned out, maybe the Cats are a better team. But what ended up happening was we deleted a second line forward (who also happened to be the heart and soul type), and got nothing back (since Caron basically didn't play - his injury took him out for most of the season). Add to that injuries to three more forwards from our top two lines (Pineault, Karsums, and Graham) that kept them out most of the seocnd half, and suddenly our offense was impotent, and we did not strengthen our defense ... and the wheels fell off. I agree, with all the stuff that happened, you can pin point one single event...a lot happened in late December and early January that caused the team to derail and play basically .500 hockey or less in the 2nd half. -Salvis leaving took a lot of spirit off the team, he was an off ice leader and had very good ties within the team -Pineault got hurt as the WJHC and came back, struggled and missed 5-6 more games -Crawford got suspended and was not quite as good the 2nd half -Welton was acquired at a high price and didn't play anywhere near the level he did in Quebec -Karsums hardly played a game in 2005 -Graham broke his leg in early january and only returned in March at 50-60% -Caron was added to help the defense and ended up playing only 5-6 games before getting hurt -Larue got fired
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Post by duffman on Jun 16, 2005 14:53:33 GMT -5
I thought we were going back to the initial bad deal that brought Caron to Moncton. Remember the one where we traded a 100 point center...(100 point players grow on trees)...for a young gangly defenceman who was going to dominate the league at 19 and 20...now that was a great trade!!
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Post by Cristobal Huet on Jun 16, 2005 14:57:34 GMT -5
I thought we were going back to the initial bad deal that brought Caron to Moncton. Remember the one where we traded a 100 point center...(100 point players grow on trees)...for a young gangly defenceman who was going to dominate the league at 19 and 20...now that was a great trade!! Parenteau would have been completely useless the last 2 years.
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Post by duffman on Jun 16, 2005 15:23:52 GMT -5
I thought we were going back to the initial bad deal that brought Caron to Moncton. Remember the one where we traded a 100 point center...(100 point players grow on trees)...for a young gangly defenceman who was going to dominate the league at 19 and 20...now that was a great trade!! Parenteau would have been completely useless the last 2 years. So we would have come out even!! You set em up I'll knock em down.
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Post by Sakss23 on Jun 16, 2005 21:50:29 GMT -5
Parenteau would have been completely useless the last 2 years. So we would have come out even!! You set em up I'll knock em down. Who was our second best player in the playoff ? Caron easily was the most valuable after Bernier offensively.
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Post by KBT on Jun 17, 2005 7:46:08 GMT -5
So we would have come out even!! You set em up I'll knock em down. Who was our second best player in the playoff ? Caron easily was the most valuable after Bernier offensively. Isn't Caron supposed to be a defenceman? Being second best on a dismal effort like last year got him a spot on an industrial league team in Chicoutimi...hardly something to make the highlight reels. When Caron first got here I thought he showed a lot of promise. Unfortunatly he never delivered the way I thought he should have. He was never an embarassment, but he was never a team leader in any way. That's why I didn't think that bringing him back when they did at the cost they paid - again - was a great deal for the Wildcats.
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Post by Cristobal Huet on Jun 17, 2005 8:01:31 GMT -5
Who was our second best player in the playoff ? Caron easily was the most valuable after Bernier offensively. Isn't Caron supposed to be a defenceman? Being second best on a dismal effort like last year got him a spot on an industrial league team in Chicoutimi...hardly something to make the highlight reels. When Caron first got here I thought he showed a lot of promise. Unfortunatly he never delivered the way I thought he should have. He was never an embarassment, but he was never a team leader in any way. That's why I didn't think that bringing him back when they did at the cost they paid - again - was a great deal for the Wildcats. What you(and some others) don't seem to realise is that salvis was cut in favor of Glode, not Caron...they could have had both in the lineup.
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Post by KBT on Jun 17, 2005 8:31:46 GMT -5
Isn't Caron supposed to be a defenceman? Being second best on a dismal effort like last year got him a spot on an industrial league team in Chicoutimi...hardly something to make the highlight reels. When Caron first got here I thought he showed a lot of promise. Unfortunatly he never delivered the way I thought he should have. He was never an embarassment, but he was never a team leader in any way. That's why I didn't think that bringing him back when they did at the cost they paid - again - was a great deal for the Wildcats. What you(and some others) don't seem to realise is that salvis was cut in favor of Glode, not Caron...they could have had both in the lineup. Maybe you're right, but if you take Caron out of the picture only one of Salvis, Glode and Pelham had to go. With Caron coming back the Cats had to get rid of two of them and I think it was a mistake. You just don't cut a guy like Salvis loose. He brought too much leadership to the team. When Salvis left the rest of the team seemed to lose the desire to win. I know we had half our stars out with injuries but there were several games they could have won in the second half had they had any desire.
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Post by Cristobal Huet on Jun 17, 2005 8:37:13 GMT -5
What you(and some others) don't seem to realise is that salvis was cut in favor of Glode, not Caron...they could have had both in the lineup. Maybe you're right, but if you take Caron out of the picture only one of Salvis, Glode and Pelham had to go. With Caron coming back the Cats had to get rid of two of them and I think it was a mistake. You just don't cut a guy like Salvis loose. He brought too much leadership to the team. When Salvis left the rest of the team seemed to lose the desire to win. I know we had half our stars out with injuries but there were several games they could have won in the second half had they had any desire. The big screw up was keeping Glode ahead of Salvis.
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Post by jimmy on Jun 17, 2005 8:42:40 GMT -5
Maybe you're right, but if you take Caron out of the picture only one of Salvis, Glode and Pelham had to go. With Caron coming back the Cats had to get rid of two of them and I think it was a mistake. You just don't cut a guy like Salvis loose. He brought too much leadership to the team. When Salvis left the rest of the team seemed to lose the desire to win. I know we had half our stars out with injuries but there were several games they could have won in the second half had they had any desire. The big screw up was keeping Glode ahead of Salvis. What makes you so sure the big screw up wasn't keeping Caron instead of Salvis AND Glode (or Pelham)... it is not as if we had a bad D at Xmas, we went looking to fix something that wasn't broke (our blueline) and in the process weakened ourselves substantially up front.
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Post by Cristobal Huet on Jun 17, 2005 8:48:41 GMT -5
The big screw up was keeping Glode ahead of Salvis. What makes you so sure the big screw up wasn't keeping Caron instead of Salvis AND Glode (or Pelham)... it is not as if we had a bad D at Xmas, we went looking to fix something that wasn't broke (our blueline) and in the process weakened ourselves substantially up front. It was quite apparent that the defense needed an upgrade if you saw them play in December...I remember mentionning it on here. If not for Karsums Pineault and Graham's injuries, losing Salvis and Pelham would not have been anywhere near as big a problem. I thought Salvis was the #2 20 year old on the team. I think a healthy Caron would have done more in the 2nd half than Glode or Pelham had it not been for 3 key forwards being hurt.
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Post by jimmy on Jun 17, 2005 8:57:46 GMT -5
I thought Salvis was the #2 20 year old on the team. I think a healthy Caron would have done more in the 2nd half than Glode or Pelham had it not been for 3 key forwards being hurt. Agree about Salvis being the number 2 20 year old on the team. A healthy Caron may have done a better job as third 20 year old than Glode or Pelham, however, by the same token, Glode and Pelham did a fine job as third overgager in the first half (as good as any other teams 3rd overager), the team was winning, and chemistry was clearly very good. As far as strengthening the D, wasn't that what the Welton deal was for?
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