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Post by SteveUL on Aug 15, 2005 12:20:58 GMT -5
It has nothing to do with the Memorial Cup, Bernier was not coming back, no use protecting him...and I'm not talking hindsight, I said it in June. Not having a superstar player like Bernier in the lineup in a rebuilding year and having kept a young prospect instead would be ok. But like I said, in a memorial cup year, even if the chance is very remote, around 5% chance, I agree with the decision. You were saying back in April and May that chances were around 5%. He did say 5% (or something like that) ... and he also said he should not be protected ... and he has never waivered from that position. So by saying Bernier's name now he is not operating with hindsight. But he also wanted to protect Bodnarchuk ... and was pissed when Halifax got him. So the question still has to be asked ... would he protect Bergeron ahead of Welcher ? Welcher obviously has more potential skillwise than Bergeron does ... but Bergeron might have more immediate value to us this year.
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Post by hockeyfan99 on Aug 15, 2005 12:49:26 GMT -5
IMO in a Memorial Cup year unless you thought that Welcher could be traded for something worthwhile to NFL I would think Bergeron would be of more value to protect. The reason being that right now Bergeron could contribute on the third line for you guys. Whereas Welcher didn't quite pan out as a first round pick. He still could be good 2 or 3 yrs from now but that is not where Moncton's focus is right now.
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Post by SteveUL on Aug 15, 2005 13:10:55 GMT -5
IMO in a Memorial Cup year unless you thought that Welcher could be traded for something worthwhile to NFL I would think Bergeron would be of more value to protect. The reason being that right now Bergeron could contribute on the third line for you guys. Whereas Welcher didn't quite pan out as a first round pick. He still could be good 2 or 3 yrs from now but that is not where Moncton's focus is right now. Welcher would also likely be on the 3rd line ... plus have 2 or 3 seasons left to improve to the player the Cats expected when they drafted him. Bergeron ... while being a great physical presence ... doesn't have much more upside than what you see is what you get. And ... as I said ... I think Bergeron's grit and skill level can be found in many of the FA's we have targetted for a look-see. So while losing Bergeron isn't something to be happy about ... he can probably be replaced at no cost.
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Post by MacKevin on Aug 15, 2005 13:19:26 GMT -5
IMO in a Memorial Cup year unless you thought that Welcher could be traded for something worthwhile to NFL I would think Bergeron would be of more value to protect. The reason being that right now Bergeron could contribute on the third line for you guys. Whereas Welcher didn't quite pan out as a first round pick. He still could be good 2 or 3 yrs from now but that is not where Moncton's focus is right now. Welcher would also likely be on the 3rd line ... plus have 2 or 3 seasons left to improve to the player the Cats expected when they drafted him. Bergeron ... while being a great physical presence ... doesn't have much more upside than what you see is what you get. And ... as I said ... I think Bergeron's grit and skill level can be found in many of the FA's we have targetted for a look-see. So while losing Bergeron isn't something to be happy about ... he can probably be replaced at no cost. Wow - No upside Potential? Your going to eat those words when he comes to town. Welcher, Hepditch, Samsom maybe but Bergeron was being wasted.
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Post by hockeyfan99 on Aug 15, 2005 13:46:15 GMT -5
IMO in a Memorial Cup year unless you thought that Welcher could be traded for something worthwhile to NFL I would think Bergeron would be of more value to protect. The reason being that right now Bergeron could contribute on the third line for you guys. Whereas Welcher didn't quite pan out as a first round pick. He still could be good 2 or 3 yrs from now but that is not where Moncton's focus is right now. Welcher would also likely be on the 3rd line ... plus have 2 or 3 seasons left to improve to the player the Cats expected when they drafted him. Bergeron ... while being a great physical presence ... doesn't have much more upside than what you see is what you get. And ... as I said ... I think Bergeron's grit and skill level can be found in many of the FA's we have targetted for a look-see. So while losing Bergeron isn't something to be happy about ... he can probably be replaced at no cost. Steve I think you are falling victim to your own hindsight comment. Back a few weeks ago most people didn't even have Marchand getting more than 4th line Minutes. I said that Welcher has potential to be a good player but he is not a checking line type player. And on a team like Moncton would only get 4th minutes at best this year. Short term I have no doubt that Bergeron would be better for you. Long term Welcher has the potential to be a second line player.
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Post by Cristobal Huet on Aug 15, 2005 13:47:42 GMT -5
Welcher would also likely be on the 3rd line ... plus have 2 or 3 seasons left to improve to the player the Cats expected when they drafted him. Bergeron ... while being a great physical presence ... doesn't have much more upside than what you see is what you get. And ... as I said ... I think Bergeron's grit and skill level can be found in many of the FA's we have targetted for a look-see. So while losing Bergeron isn't something to be happy about ... he can probably be replaced at no cost. Steve I think you are falling victim to your own hindsight comment. Back a few weeks ago most people didn't even have Marchand getting more than 4th line Minutes. I said that Welcher has potential to be a good player but he is not a checking line type player. And on a team like Moncton would only get 4th minutes at best. Welcher would be on the 3rd line with Samson and Gaudet and getting PK time...
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Post by SteveUL on Aug 15, 2005 14:07:47 GMT -5
Welcher would also likely be on the 3rd line ... plus have 2 or 3 seasons left to improve to the player the Cats expected when they drafted him. Bergeron ... while being a great physical presence ... doesn't have much more upside than what you see is what you get. And ... as I said ... I think Bergeron's grit and skill level can be found in many of the FA's we have targetted for a look-see. So while losing Bergeron isn't something to be happy about ... he can probably be replaced at no cost. Steve I think you are falling victim to your own hindsight comment. Back a few weeks ago most people didn't even have Marchand getting more than 4th line Minutes. I said that Welcher has potential to be a good player but he is not a checking line type player. And on a team like Moncton would only get 4th minutes at best this year. Short term I have no doubt that Bergeron would be better for you. Long term Welcher has the potential to be a second line player. Welcher is a two-way forward type of guy ... has puck skills but also very strong away from the puck ... he would excel on the 3rd line where a guy like Marchand would not. Marchand is more of player that can do great things with the puck but goes unnoticed without it. Some people are suited for checking line roles (Welcher, Bergeron) ... and some are not (Marchand). To say Welcher is not a checking line type of player shows you have not got a clue about the player. When he was drafted he was compared to Ryan Salvis ... one of the best checking line forwards we have ever had. Welcher is a character player ... gets ahead with hard work ... and had 3rd line written all over him for this year. Have you even seen Welcher play ?
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Post by hockeyfan99 on Aug 15, 2005 14:23:10 GMT -5
Nice to see that (according to you) Moncton uses its first rounds picks for Checking roles. Most teams use their first & second round picks for potential Scoring forwards, Top Pairing defensemen & future starting goalies, I guess you guys are the exception.
And yes I do remember seeing Welcher play last year although only once. He didn't impress me but he also didn't look bad. He was average size for a 16 yr old skated hard but didn't seem to do much although he was only a rookie and one game is not nearly enough to evaluate his future potential, so I was leaving that to you Moncton fans who would have seen him somewhat regularly.
But based on your evaluation of him I first can't understand why he was drafted in the first round. But secondly why it would even be a question of who to keep if Welcher would excel on the third line, is much younger than Bergeron and apparently is compared to the best 3rd line player you ever had. If he really was that good there should have been other players that could be left unprotected over him. Clearly you are exaggerating.
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Post by Ric on Aug 15, 2005 14:27:08 GMT -5
Bergeron was the most impressive during the pre-season, but only showed flashes of his initial self during the season. There is no way we could have protected him over Bernier as long as there is even the slightest chance of Bernier coming back. Pineault is capable of filling the void, but he must show more than his occassional flash of greatness. I think this will be his year.
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Post by SteveUL on Aug 15, 2005 14:43:10 GMT -5
Nice to see that (according to you) Moncton uses its first rounds picks for Checking roles. Most teams use their first & second round picks for potential Scoring forwards, Top Pairing defensemen & future starting goalies, I guess you guys are the exception. And yes I do remember seeing Welcher play last year although only once. He didn't impress me but he also didn't look bad. He was average size for a 16 yr old skated hard but didn't seem to do much although he was only a rookie and one game is not nearly enough to evaluate his future potential, so I was leaving that to you Moncton fans who would have seen him somewhat regularly. But based on your evaluation of him I first can't understand why he was drafted in the first round. But secondly why it would even be a question of who to keep if Welcher would excel on the third line, is much younger than Bergeron and apparently is compared to the best 3rd line player you ever had. If he really was that good there should have been other players that could be left unprotected over him. Clearly you are exaggerating. 3rd line would the target for Welcher this year ... if he hadn't been drafted (exp draft) ... and if we didn't find a FA that also could do the role. Thats not to say that Welcher will only be a 3rd liner for his entire career ... but this year that would be the ideal role for him. Just like Ryan Salvis ... he was on the 2nd line last year before he left. But regradless of where he played ... when he was assigned a checking role he excelled at it ... just ask Crosby. Welcher was drafted with the tag (by Head Scout Nevin) that he would be the Captain of the future ... so it was much more than just offense they saw in him. In my mind ... if you don't protect Bernier (which I suggested early on ... but wasn't disappointed when he was protected) ... then one of Welcher and Bergeron should be protected. Welcher has more upside than Bergeron does ... by virtue of his age and comparitive skill ... and Bergeron types (grinders that fight) can be found elsewhere. I won't argue the point about drafting Welcher 1st round ... I think he could have probably been had in the 2nd ... but who knows. I don't make the picks ... and I didn't see him play before the draft. But in MAAA I think he had something like a goal a game avg. Alot of the crap Welcher gets is because the Cats selected him so early ... not his fault. Had he been drafted by a team like PEI or Bathurst where he could get more of chance to play regularly then he may have lived up to expectations. I heard a rumour that if you weren't a french speaking player on the Wildcats then you had to do some pretty exceptional things to get icetime ... heard that from vets and rookies. Welcher was a little behind the 8-ball when he arrived. Hopefully that rumoured problem is now gone with a new coaching staff. Welcher was 17 last year ... not 16 ... which is another reason I think he could be had in the 2nd round ... maybe even 3rd ... but maybe not when the Cats picked in the 3rd. So perhaps the Cats did screw up in picking him 1st round ... but getting Marchand in the 2nd made up for it as he is a 1st round calibre player ... so it all evens out ... we got a 1st round calibre player and a 2nd round calibre player in rounds one and two.
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Post by MacKevin on Aug 15, 2005 16:02:41 GMT -5
It has nothing to do with the Memorial Cup, Bernier was not coming back, no use protecting him...and I'm not talking hindsight, I said it in June. Not having a superstar player like Bernier in the lineup in a rebuilding year and having kept a young prospect instead would be ok. But like I said, in a memorial cup year, even if the chance is very remote, around 5% chance, I agree with the decision. You were saying back in April and May that chances were around 5%. There's hindsight and then there's shortsighted. Selling your future teams down the river would be the biggest mistake we could make and that's exactly what we did.
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