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Post by MacKevin on Jun 16, 2006 8:50:14 GMT -5
You know anyone can win a tournament, a different golfer every weekend, but we beat them 4 out 6 games in the Presidents Cup. We won the league, we won the Q, and the boys sharpness just wasn't there in the Memorial Cup. I know and the Cats Fans know who the best team in the Q was and I bet if you ask so does the Ramparts. But who am I trying to explain this to, someone who is bitter they clearly didn't match up and now has nothing better to do but get on the Cats site and belittle a very very good hockey team. By the way get accustom to Moncton on top because this year changed everything. We might have to rebuild a year at .500, but we won't be there long. Between the Titan and Quebec it was anybodies series, as it going to 7 games proved..........Moncton got a tired team in the finals....great to win it in 6 games, but if Quebec had a 4 game series with Bathurst instead of 7, I think the outcome would have been different......and I'm not bitter, as my team took the MemCup champions to 7 games, which proves to me just how good they were this year....more than anybody expected. You know I think its like you say with the Memorial Cup. We had a clearly better team, we outshot Quebec 48-25 in the last game and by everyones opinion should have won the game but the score certainly didn't show it. It just all shoulda coulda woulda and I don't remember seeing Bathurst anywhere near the Presidents or Memorial Cup, so your just going to have to deal with it. The Titan clearly made trades to go for it this year so lets not talk about "not expected".
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Post by SteveUL on Jun 16, 2006 8:57:19 GMT -5
The draft choices you think we missed will all be replaced by trades of which we are deep. Bourdon will trade before Christmas for a first round plus more. In my opinion so also should Welton. 16 yr olds can't be expected to step in and make an immediate impact they need time to develop. So trading Bourdon and Welton for two high 2007 draft choices likely won't start to make a big impact until they are 18 which will be 2009/10. That is 4 years away. What did Bourdon cost last year ? VD acquired 3 players from Moncton ... possibly even 5 before its all said and done. Don't you think that would accelerate our rebuild compared to getting draft picks ? High draft picks can also be used to trade for players. Its like we did at the 04 draft ... traded Gagne (20) and DesRuisseaux (20) for four 18 yr olds ... it can be quickly truned around by trading your strong assets.
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Post by gongshow on Jun 16, 2006 9:58:15 GMT -5
16 yr olds can't be expected to step in and make an immediate impact they need time to develop. So trading Bourdon and Welton for two high 2007 draft choices likely won't start to make a big impact until they are 18 which will be 2009/10. That is 4 years away. What did Bourdon cost last year ? VD acquired 3 players from Moncton ... possibly even 5 before its all said and done. Don't you think that would accelerate our rebuild compared to getting draft picks ? High draft picks can also be used to trade for players. Its like we did at the 04 draft ... traded Gagne (20) and DesRuisseaux (20) for four 18 yr olds ... it can be quickly truned around by trading your strong assets. Speaking of the Desruisseaux trade,IMO it was the best trade we ever made. Desruisseaux never impressed me at all when he was here,plus he was 20 when we dealt him and in return got two quality 18 yr old role players for him(Bergeron & Veilleux)and if i'd have any say those two would still be with the team to this day. One of the few "good" trades we ever made.
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Post by hockeyfan99 on Jun 16, 2006 11:14:52 GMT -5
What did Bourdon cost last year ? VD acquired 3 players from Moncton ... possibly even 5 before its all said and done. Don't you think that would accelerate our rebuild compared to getting draft picks ? High draft picks can also be used to trade for players. So Steve let me be sure I understand you. You are saying that you expect Moncton to get the equivilent of Girard, Adam, Marchand & a 4th Round choice (maybe even more) for Bourdon? Also since you are arguing against me on this are you saying that you agree with Mackevin that Moncton will only be a 1 yr re-building team which somehow stays around 0.500 next year and will be even better than that the following 2 yrs? Give me a break! You need tradable assets to get players and draft picks. As I previously illustrated, outside of Bourdon and Welton you very little that is expendable that would get you much of a return. I stand by my comments that it will take Moncton a tough 3 yrs to get out of the hole that was dug. Maybe even longer if the right moves aren't made.
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Post by Sec21critic on Jun 16, 2006 11:53:40 GMT -5
What did Bourdon cost last year ? VD acquired 3 players from Moncton ... possibly even 5 before its all said and done. Don't you think that would accelerate our rebuild compared to getting draft picks ? High draft picks can also be used to trade for players. So Steve let me be sure I understand you. You are saying that you expect Moncton to get the equivilent of Girard, Adam, Marchand & a 4th Round choice (maybe even more) for Bourdon? Also since you are arguing against me on this are you saying that you agree with Mackevin that Moncton will only be a 1 yr re-building team which somehow stays around 0.500 next year and will be even better than that the following 2 yrs? Give me a break! You need tradable assets to get players and draft picks. As I previously illustrated, outside of Bourdon and Welton you very little that is expendable that would get you much of a return. I stand by my comments that it will take Moncton a tough 3 yrs to get out of the hole that was dug. Maybe even longer if the right moves aren't made. Two years, yes... three years? MOre moves would probably have to go wrong than you think for that particular scenario to play out. In 2000, we had even fewer tradeable assets than this year... at any given time, fully half our roster was comprised of either a) older FA acquisitions or b) 18 and 19 YO players that simply could not cut it with virtually any other junior team in the country. Some of these moves panned out, but for every Bill Ruggiero or Colin Circelli we picked up, there was a Jon Billy or a Dallas Beaton right behind them. Given the stance we were forced to take that year - that is, starting off with a plethora of FA's, a prospect or two and Patrick Yetman, then trading virtually all marketable assets - this year looks alot more bearable in comparison. Now, that being said... despite having nothing to deal with and pretty much a ton of nothing staring out in 00-01, the team took just two years to rebuild. By 02-03, we were top five again and remained so for the three additional years. If we could get out of that mess in two years, it may not be as tricky as you think to get out of this this mess in two as well.
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Post by SteveUL on Jun 16, 2006 12:10:13 GMT -5
What did Bourdon cost last year ? VD acquired 3 players from Moncton ... possibly even 5 before its all said and done. Don't you think that would accelerate our rebuild compared to getting draft picks ? High draft picks can also be used to trade for players. So Steve let me be sure I understand you. You are saying that you expect Moncton to get the equivilent of Girard, Adam, Marchand & a 4th Round choice (maybe even more) for Bourdon? Also since you are arguing against me on this are you saying that you agree with Mackevin that Moncton will only be a 1 yr re-building team which somehow stays around 0.500 next year and will be even better than that the following 2 yrs? Give me a break! You need tradable assets to get players and draft picks. As I previously illustrated, outside of Bourdon and Welton you very little that is expendable that would get you much of a return. I stand by my comments that it will take Moncton a tough 3 yrs to get out of the hole that was dug. Maybe even longer if the right moves aren't made. I make no predictions on how good (or bad) we'll be next year until I see who gets hired to run the show. No ... I don't believe we'll be a 0.500 team next year ... if Nolan was back I think that could be an attainable goal ... but now I have no illusions of that. If they hire Flynn then maybe we could achieve that goal ... but again its the upper limit. We will likely be sub 0.500 unless our coach can get the crew to over-achieve ... comes from outworking your opponent ... something Nolan was able to get them to do consistently ... but not something I've seen other coaches be able to do. Next year ... hard to say where we will be ... it all depends on what assets are marketable and how they are managed ... which again all comes back to who is in charge. But here is the thing ... we've been a top 5 team for 4 consecutive years ... 2 trips to the Prez Cup final in there ... it should have been a 3 years in the Top 5 but hosting the Mem Cup forced us to stretch it to 4. Now its time to rebuild toward another run which should start in about 3 years. So ... if we can take 2 yrs out from being in the spotlight and then get back into the hunt ... then thats pretty good. I know you are dying to shit on Moncton this year ... but that doesn't matter. We were treated to the most exciting hockey we have ever seen ... we won a championship ... had a great season from start to finish ... and now we rebuild. It was all worth it. Its the cycle of Jr hockey ... we just completed a successful cycle and will now start over. Any team in the Q would gladly take our past 6 yrs if they could. In PEI .. you attained the lofty mantle of bowing out in the 2nd round (your highest finish ever) and then rebuilding ... and then its been two years of struggle and in-fighting. Its seems now that your GM has finally laid down a plan and is following it and you should see the benefits as early as next year ... some inklings of it will be seen this year ... but its been a longtime coming and you aren't there yet. But your lack of success over the entire history of the Rocket franchise is no reason for you to want to drag a great franchise like Moncton down into the sewer with your bunch. Its our turn to sit out for a few years and then we'll work our way back to the top.
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Post by hockeyfan99 on Jun 16, 2006 12:52:45 GMT -5
Firstly I am not "shitting on Moncton" I am responding to some posts made by Moncton fans.
I acknowledge that Moncton had a great year last year and some good ones before that and that the natural cycle of Jr hockey is that there will be some justified re-building necessary in the future.
The only thing that got me on this was how some posters are going on about how fantasic Moncton is and how good they will be next year and quickly become Contenders again. And yet no one is offering the other more reaistic view that this is likely to be a very difficult re-building process. I merely pointed out that with the few quality assets that you have and with very little organizational depth this re-building process is likely to be much more difficult than many or acknowledging.
Is PEI perfect certainly not but since Billy & Steve feel the need to constantly come onto the PEI board and make multiple posts about how every move that we make is a mistake I thought that since no one else appears to be interested in acknowledging the difficult re-building process ahead I would.
By no means am I trying to take away from what Moncton has done for the past few years but I think it is worthwhile and important to acknowledge and discuss the road ahead.
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Post by SteveUL on Jun 16, 2006 13:00:27 GMT -5
Firstly I am not "shitting on Moncton" I am responding to some posts made by Moncton fans. I acknowledge that Moncton had a great year last year and some good ones before that and that the natural cycle of Jr hockey is that there will be some justified re-building necessary in the future. The only thing that got me on this was how some posters are going on about how fantasic Moncton is and how good they will be next year and quickly become Contenders again. And yet no one is offering the other more reaistic view that this is likely to be a very difficult re-building process. I merely pointed out that with the few quality assets that you have and with very little organizational depth this re-building process is likely to be much more difficult than many or acknowledging. Is PEI perfect certainly not but since Billy & Steve feel the need to constantly come onto the PEI board and make multiple posts about how every move that we make is a mistake I thought that since no one else appears to be interested in acknowledging the difficult re-building process ahead I would. By no means am I trying to take away from what Moncton has done for the past few years but I think it is worthwhile and important to acknowledge and discuss the road ahead. Feel free to shit on those that aren't willing to believe it or just simply don't understand ... but we are vacating our apartment on the top floor and moving into a more affordable basement apartment for a few years. But there will be nothing "difficult" about our rebuilding ... its a simple process really ... it just takes patience.
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Post by MacKevin on Jun 16, 2006 13:13:49 GMT -5
So Steve let me be sure I understand you. You are saying that you expect Moncton to get the equivilent of Girard, Adam, Marchand & a 4th Round choice (maybe even more) for Bourdon? Also since you are arguing against me on this are you saying that you agree with Mackevin that Moncton will only be a 1 yr re-building team which somehow stays around 0.500 next year and will be even better than that the following 2 yrs? Give me a break! You need tradable assets to get players and draft picks. As I previously illustrated, outside of Bourdon and Welton you very little that is expendable that would get you much of a return. I stand by my comments that it will take Moncton a tough 3 yrs to get out of the hole that was dug. Maybe even longer if the right moves aren't made. I make no predictions on how good (or bad) we'll be next year until I see who gets hired to run the show. No ... I don't believe we'll be a 0.500 team next year ... if Nolan was back I think that could be an attainable goal ... but now I have no illusions of that. If they hire Flynn then maybe we could achieve that goal ... but again its the upper limit. We will likely be sub 0.500 unless our coach can get the crew to over-achieve ... comes from outworking your opponent ... something Nolan was able to get them to do consistently ... but not something I've seen other coaches be able to do. Next year ... hard to say where we will be ... it all depends on what assets are marketable and how they are managed ... which again all comes back to who is in charge. But here is the thing ... we've been a top 5 team for 4 consecutive years ... 2 trips to the Prez Cup final in there ... it should have been a 3 years in the Top 5 but hosting the Mem Cup forced us to stretch it to 4. Now its time to rebuild toward another run which should start in about 3 years. So ... if we can take 2 yrs out from being in the spotlight and then get back into the hunt ... then thats pretty good. I know you are dying to shit on Moncton this year ... but that doesn't matter. We were treated to the most exciting hockey we have ever seen ... we won a championship ... had a great season from start to finish ... and now we rebuild. It was all worth it. Its the cycle of Jr hockey ... we just completed a successful cycle and will now start over. Any team in the Q would gladly take our past 6 yrs if they could. In PEI .. you attained the lofty mantle of bowing out in the 2nd round (your highest finish ever) and then rebuilding ... and then its been two years of struggle and in-fighting. Its seems now that your GM has finally laid down a plan and is following it and you should see the benefits as early as next year ... some inklings of it will be seen this year ... but its been a longtime coming and you aren't there yet. But your lack of success over the entire history of the Rocket franchise is no reason for you to want to drag a great franchise like Moncton down into the sewer with your bunch. Its our turn to sit out for a few years and then we'll work our way back to the top. very very well put.
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falcon
Junior Member
Posts: 168
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Post by falcon on Jun 16, 2006 13:22:26 GMT -5
I make no predictions on how good (or bad) we'll be next year until I see who gets hired to run the show. No ... I don't believe we'll be a 0.500 team next year ... if Nolan was back I think that could be an attainable goal ... but now I have no illusions of that. If they hire Flynn then maybe we could achieve that goal ... but again its the upper limit. We will likely be sub 0.500 unless our coach can get the crew to over-achieve ... comes from outworking your opponent ... something Nolan was able to get them to do consistently ... but not something I've seen other coaches be able to do. Next year ... hard to say where we will be ... it all depends on what assets are marketable and how they are managed ... which again all comes back to who is in charge. But here is the thing ... we've been a top 5 team for 4 consecutive years ... 2 trips to the Prez Cup final in there ... it should have been a 3 years in the Top 5 but hosting the Mem Cup forced us to stretch it to 4. Now its time to rebuild toward another run which should start in about 3 years. So ... if we can take 2 yrs out from being in the spotlight and then get back into the hunt ... then thats pretty good. I know you are dying to shit on Moncton this year ... but that doesn't matter. We were treated to the most exciting hockey we have ever seen ... we won a championship ... had a great season from start to finish ... and now we rebuild. It was all worth it. Its the cycle of Jr hockey ... we just completed a successful cycle and will now start over. Any team in the Q would gladly take our past 6 yrs if they could. In PEI .. you attained the lofty mantle of bowing out in the 2nd round (your highest finish ever) and then rebuilding ... and then its been two years of struggle and in-fighting. Its seems now that your GM has finally laid down a plan and is following it and you should see the benefits as early as next year ... some inklings of it will be seen this year ... but its been a longtime coming and you aren't there yet. But your lack of success over the entire history of the Rocket franchise is no reason for you to want to drag a great franchise like Moncton down into the sewer with your bunch. Its our turn to sit out for a few years and then we'll work our way back to the top. very very well put. well not really, as it was a really a good past four years not six, and you were not a top 5 team as defined by playoff performance in 03 or 05 (as I recall you didn't win a series on 03) and lost to ROU who was bitch slapped by HAL who was bitch slapped by RIM in 05, hardly top 5. But you point is bang on otherwise.
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Post by MacKevin on Jun 16, 2006 13:27:53 GMT -5
Firstly I am not "shitting on Moncton" I am responding to some posts made by Moncton fans. I acknowledge that Moncton had a great year last year and some good ones before that and that the natural cycle of Jr hockey is that there will be some justified re-building necessary in the future. The only thing that got me on this was how some posters are going on about how fantasic Moncton is and how good they will be next year and quickly become Contenders again. And yet no one is offering the other more realistic view that this is likely to be a very difficult re-building process. I merely pointed out that with the few quality assets that you have and with very little organizational depth this re-building process is likely to be much more difficult than many or acknowledging. Is PEI perfect certainly not but since Billy & Steve feel the need to constantly come onto the PEI board and make multiple posts about how every move that we make is a mistake I thought that since no one else appears to be interested in acknowledging the difficult re-building process ahead I would. By no means am I trying to take away from what Moncton has done for the past few years but I think it is worthwhile and important to acknowledge and discuss the road ahead. Feel free to shit on those that aren't willing to believe it or just simply don't understand ... but we are vacating our apartment on the top floor and moving into a more affordable basement apartment for a few years. But there will be nothing "difficult" about our rebuilding ... its a simple process really ... it just takes patience. If I thought we could get .500 it was with the current Coaching Staff who were able to attract quality FAs and unexpected players. As for how long we rebuild, I see the Draft choices from last year being helpful this year and very helpful next year. The goal would be to trade this year for exactly what we didn't get in the draft this year. If we could create a this year Gatineau type team in 2 maybe 3 years we would have done well.
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Post by SteveUL on Jun 16, 2006 19:48:14 GMT -5
well not really, as it was a really a good past four years not six, and you were not a top 5 team as defined by playoff performance in 03 or 05 (as I recall you didn't win a series on 03) and lost to ROU who was bitch slapped by HAL who was bitch slapped by RIM in 05, hardly top 5. But you point is bang on otherwise. You misunderstand ... what I mean is if you could tell a GM in the very beginning of his rebuilding process ... that for the first two years he'd miss the playoffs ... but for the next 4 years his team would finish in the top 5 of the league in the regular season ... and twice make it to the Prez Cup final ... and win it once. He'd say ... I'll take it. If you told him he could have a 0.500 to 0.550 team every year and never miss the playoffs ... make the semis once in awhile ... he'd probably say ... but I wanna win. There are some teams that never even get close to a championship ... when was the last time Drum or Shaw made it to the Prez Cup final ... when was the last time PEI made it out of the second round ? There is alot to be said for having a Top 5 team in the regular season. It means for 35+ nights you get to excite the fans with very good hockey ... sure there will be some bad nights ... even some exciting losses ... but it makes for great entertainment for the fans over a long season. Playoff success is great to ... and its more likely with a Top 5 team than it is with a team in the lower half of the league. And ... most important to the success of the franchise ... is a strong team brings in very good crowds ... which just makes your franchise stronger. So ... when I say it has been a good 6 years ... what I mean is that if we could take the same 6 yr cycle ... missing the playoffs in the 1st two years ... but being a dominant team for a 4 yr run after that ... I'd gladly take it. I don't need promises of a championship ... that will take care of itself if we have strong teams ... no guarantees ... but worth the excitement anyway.
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Post by wingman on Jun 16, 2006 20:47:03 GMT -5
I liked the way Moncton went about getting geared up for this year. They knew they were going to the Memorial Cup, so they went for it, did everything they could to ice a championship team. If Moncton was my team, I would have expected no less than to have them pull out all the stops like they did this year. In doing so it may cost them in the near future, but so what, they had a chance at a national championship. Those chances don't come around very often. If they are able to build a championship team once, they can always do it again. It may take awhile, but it is a goal to work for. I would rather have a team that does go for it every once in awhile instead of having a team that never takes those chances.
Even though they didn't win the Memorial Cup, they were only one game away from winning it all which is alot closer than most teams. I know it may be a bit of a disappointment in not winning it all, but they are still the QMJHL champs. In time the Wildcats and their fans can look back at it and be proud of that accomplishment. There will be a new banner hanging in the Coliseum next season. The Wildcats and their fans have nothing to hang their heads about. The organization and the players didn't hold anything back and did everything they could for their fans this season. What is wrong with that?
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Post by Sec21critic on Jun 18, 2006 7:54:25 GMT -5
And yet no one is offering the other more reaistic view that this is likely to be a very difficult re-building process. Didn't I say we would be rebuilding for two years... even though we still have more assets than we did in 00-01 (to start out the year, anyway), it will still be a two year rebuild. Or are you just reading selective posts to sound all holier-than-thou? Please stop posting false statements... there's enough people around to do that.
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Post by Sec21critic on Jun 18, 2006 8:05:14 GMT -5
well not really, as it was a really a good past four years not six, and you were not a top 5 team as defined by playoff performance in 03 or 05 (as I recall you didn't win a series on 03) and lost to ROU who was bitch slapped by HAL who was bitch slapped by RIM in 05, hardly top 5. But you point is bang on otherwise. Actually, he is referring to top 5 in regular season standings. Fifth overall in 02-03 and fifth overall in 04-05 (we were seeded sixth thanks to divisional rankings that year, but had more regular season points than third seed RN). Basically, you could use either regular season OR playoff success to gauge how successful the franchise has been in recent years... just depends on which side of the argument you're on I guess.
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